Sorry about this but its Rant mode on!!

I was going to install the Vista 64bit OS and then I found out that Line 6 don't do 64bit drivers. Whilst this may not seem to be a problem because most users will happily use a 32bit version of Windows, the 64bit versions allow users to expand the PC ram past 4GB. Most PC motherboards these days are capable of running 8 or 16 GB or RAM. More memory allows more plugins and gives optimal performance as nothing needs to be streamed from disk in real time.

32bit versions of windows can access 4GB of ram but this is often reduced to 2.75GB-3.5GB depending on hardware which is a real pain in the backside. Therefore anyone who wishes to build a PC platform capable of multiple, large scale, plugins is probably going to seriously consider a 64bit version of XP or Vista. After all memory is becoming more affordable and whilst it doesn't exactly follow Moore's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law), most pc's these days are shipping with 2GB for optimal Vista performance, and, it won't be long until 4GB is the norm. Since 4GB is a bottleneck for the 32bit architecture more and more people will adopt the 64bit OS's.

Early adopters always get screwed for compatibility - I am more than aware of that. But Line 6 don't supply 64bit drivers for any of their products. So my toneport UX2 with all the upgrades and my VSTi driver will not function if I choose to upgrade to a 64bit OS. Not happy? Thats an understatement! By failing to provide 64bit versions they are effectively losing any prestige their products have. Line 6 products are pretty amazing and very successful, and they've earned it. So why not provide 64bit drivers? Because of cost? Apparently they have been looking into it for over a year - but other companies just bit the bullet and built 64bit support for their products ages ago.

Bollocks! Rant Off :)

This is why I didn't bother with XP or Vista 64 bit just yet. I will wait until Windows 7 and make my move with new hardware, etc. So we're talking merely a few years. I can wait a bit longer.

Couldn't agree more. I am surprised Line 6 haven't developed 64bit drivers. They are usually pretty good with updates (better than most companies). I'd post this on the Line 6 forum if you haven't already.

Vista was a case of premature ejaculation....64Bit....well that needs Viagra.
There are slim pickings in the driver departments for Vista in the 64Bit flavor.

Hey that sounded pretty well worded...someone write that down in case I forget...:)

Vista was a case of premature ejaculation....64Bit....well that needs Viagra.
There are slim pickings in the driver departments for Vista in the 64Bit flavor.

Hey that sounded pretty well worded...someone write that down in case I forget...:)

I hear it as a punk / rap sort of thing, worth working on :lol:

Well if you check the Line 6 X3 forums atm mate, they are already getting alot of hassle for not making Gearbox available for the X3/X3L in good time, so it doesn't surprise me that they aren't hot on the trails of the 64bit support.
I really feel for you mate, you want your PC to do all it can, and its not even supported to do so, it will probably happen, but that doesn't help you in the meantime (if you upgrade to 64bit).
Hope the software department get their butts in gear though, for both of us :)

This is why I didn't bother with XP or Vista 64 bit just yet. I will wait until Windows 7 and make my move with new hardware, etc. So we're talking merely a few years. I can wait a bit longer.

thats the pisser though, the technology is here and has been here for a couple of years with WinXP64 and now Vista 64. Line6 used to be cutting edge, bleeding edge even but now they seem happy to ignore current IT technology. IIRC the first XP 64 was released 5 years ago, and XP Pro 64 about 3 years ago. Vienna/Win 7 is still unlikely to appear until 2010 at the earliest. I think it is incredibly shortsighted of Line6 TBH.

Vista was a case of premature ejaculation....64Bit....well that needs Viagra.
There are slim pickings in the driver departments for Vista in the 64Bit flavor.

Hey that sounded pretty well worded...someone write that down in case I forget...:)

LOLOL - Actually I ended up installing a copy of Vista 32 Ultimate. Its fiddly at first but after half an hour I can say I quite like it. I put it on an old hdd and the vista rating is pretty much maxed for everything so it likes the pc. Plus Cubase SX3 runs fine too. Its not a massive leap though - more like Win98 to Win95. Maybe there will be a VistaSE further down the line.

POD and AV - yeah I have been watching the Line6 forums for about 16 months for news about 64bit drivers and although there are many requests the best Line 6 can say is - "we're looking into it."

Yeah, seems like Line6 haven´t done their homework. 64 bit architecture is still deffinately not settled down as of present. Have you tried running the toneport through WOW64? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64
I see you installed the V32. But I´m just curious if you tried it or not.

Yeah, seems like Line6 haven´t done their homework. 64 bit architecture is still deffinately not settled down as of present. Have you tried running the toneport through WOW64? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64
I see you installed the V32. But I´m just curious if you tried it or not.

Problem is Line 6 use their device as a dongle and I don't think that will work with WOW64.

Problem is Line 6 use their device as a dongle and I don't think that will work with WOW64.
Who knows. Maybe for that same reason it does work. But I don´t know, I´m stuck to xp 2nd edition.

Yeah, seems like Line6 haven´t done their homework. 64 bit architecture is still deffinately not settled down as of present. Have you tried running the toneport through WOW64? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64
I see you installed the V32. But I´m just curious if you tried it or not.

Nope. I haven't tried it mate. I didn't even know about Windows on Windows until you posted :D

Nope. I haven't tried it mate. I didn't even know about Windows on Windows until you posted :D
I don´t have Vista, still bugging with my old PC, but I have some friends who do have it installed, they say it works pretty well for many stuff (can´t say about music orientated software though).

Hey Porty, et al -

Here's a very good article on 64bit vs. 32bit Vista:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2280808,00.asp

For those with ADD, here's the conclusion:

Running 64-bit applications on a 64-bit OS doesn't yield clear cut results in these types of benchmarks. Part of the problem is the relatively small data sets used in the 3D rendering tests, where most of the pure 64-bit benchmarks were run. We'll be looking into larger data set rendering tests for future use. If anything, the Cinebench 10 test indicates what moving to 64-bit can do, under the right conditions.

With video and photographic applications, you'll also see mixed performance—some things will run faster, some cases slower.

The results for gaming was the most intriguing. As many users may have experienced, particularly with games like Crysis and Supreme Commander, modern PC games often push up against the 2GB limit. Given that an application gets its own 2GB partition when running on 64-bit Vista, that means a big game gets just a bit more memory than it would on a 32-bit OS.

On the other hand, 32-bit apps running on Vista 64 have to "thunk" through the WoW64 (Windows on Windows") subsystem, which is how 32-bit Windows apps run on Vista 64-bit. With games, at least, it seems that having that extra bit of space in the memory partition helps more than the thunking hurts.

In general, though, the situation with 64-bit applications and 32-bit applications on Vista 64 isn't mature yet. While a user running large data sets will almost certainly see improved performance, users with less demanding needs may actually see reduced performance. As always, check with the software supplier, and see if you can run a few tests of your own first.

The bottom line: 64-bit Vista is certainly viable from a performance perspective, but still has a ways to go. Now if we can get all the apps developers to think in 64-bit mode, maybe we'll get better performance all around. But don't forget to stock up on memory.

thats a good article mate. It just amuses/disappoints me that bleeding edge pc applications are held back by the lack of early adoption to native 64 drivers is all. MY FA-101 soundcard has 64 bit drivers so I don't think it unreasonable to expect a company like Line 6 to release 64 bit drivers. I want to go to 8GB but there is little point at present.

And slightly off topic, Windows xp official recommended requirements was apparently 128MB of ram. However it soon became apparent that 1GB was actually more realistic because of game engine requirements. Vista ready machines are already have 2 GB as standard. Bearing in mind that 4GB is the ceiling for the 32bit OS it seems that within 18 months pc's may start reliving the bottleneck problems of the 640 Base memory issues of 15 years ago once more. That is until 64bit OS's are more actively supported.

Going back to my original gripe, it just seems incredibly short sighted by Line 6. Their products are wonderful, and by failing to release next gen drivers, they are seriously restricting the use in pro studios and semi pro project studios.

ADD? Moi? ;)

I had my first serious play with Vista last week and i really couldn't detect anything fresh at all . But it is better , it has to be , its just its not that apparent in the same way as moving from 95 to 98 or to xp .

thats a good article mate. It just amuses/disappoints me that bleeding edge pc applications are held back by the lack of early adoption to native 64 drivers is all. MY FA-101 soundcard has 64 bit drivers so I don't think it unreasonable to expect a company like Line 6 to release 64 bit drivers. I want to go to 8GB but there is little point at present.

And slightly off topic, Windows xp official recommended requirements was apparently 128MB of ram. However it soon became apparent that 1GB was actually more realistic because of game engine requirements. Vista ready machines are already have 2 GB as standard. Bearing in mind that 4GB is the ceiling for the 32bit OS it seems that within 18 months pc's may start reliving the bottleneck problems of the 640 Base memory issues of 15 years ago once more. That is until 64bit OS's are more actively supported.

Going back to my original gripe, it just seems incredibly short sighted by Line 6. Their products are wonderful, and by failing to release next gen drivers, they are seriously restricting the use in pro studios and semi pro project studios.

ADD? Moi? ;)


I agree with you. I have Vista Ultimate installed. Vista processes sound differently. (i.e. Direct Sound). But soon...someday...somehow...it will get there because as you say, the RAM requirements will push it at some point. I would agree that both MS and Line 6 need to pick up the pace if they expect to keep the Flagship status they once enjoyed without question.

Good news Porty : http://line6.com/support/ann.jspa?annID=73

Good news for me too (and the rest of us X3/X3L users) Gearbox has just been released, hopefully your 64bit drivers are next on the to-do list :thumb:

Good news Porty : http://line6.com/support/ann.jspa?annID=73

Good news for me too (and the rest of us X3/X3L users) Gearbox has just been released, hopefully your 64bit drivers are next on the to-do list :thumb:

That's excellent. Thanks for the post, Avalon. I run Vista Home Premium 32-bit at the moment but I received Ultimate 64-bit from a vendor for attending a seminar so I'll prolly be doing a clean install late summer/early fall.

That's excellent. Thanks for the post, Avalon. I run Vista Home Premium 32-bit at the moment but I received Ultimate 64-bit from a vendor for attending a seminar so I'll prolly be doing a clean install late summer/early fall.

Nps at all mate, they seem to have done a good job on the new drivers/firmware/flash and gearbox, just gave that a test run on the X3L and its working great, hopefully for you guys the 64bit drivers won't be to far behind :)

Excellent news - thanks for the update Avalon :thumb:

line 6 have finally got off their arse, 64 bit drivers now being developed.
summer release they reckon.

regards,
jim.

Excellent news - thanks for the update Avalon :thumb:

Anytime mate :) , hopefully they won't hang about on them, then you can make use of all that 64bit goodness :woot:

the week I lend my toneport to a mate - he tells me that line6 have released the 64bit drivers! Bloody typical!!!

the week I lend my toneport to a mate - he tells me that line6 have released the 64bit drivers! Bloody typical!!!

Yeah, i popped a post up about the other week in general music, forgot to post it here aswell :lol: