The Australian Prime Minister issued this statement and I think it is the first time I have seen a politician of any party say it how it is. Common sense to me...what think you? Anyone calling me a racist will be ignored...it's simply NOT me.

The UK Needs A Leader Like This!


Prime Minister John Howard - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'.

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society...

'Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom...

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

totally agree,
the UK is soft on many issues and this is one.
We need a leader like this:)

Agreed!

Same here!!

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom...


I think the author of that is full of shit. I hear exactly this same crap all the time in my own country. I'm one of those people they are telling to go somewhere else. Fucking Christians trying to tell ME that THEY built this country, half of whom immigrated after the fact.

My family was here to FOUND this country. They worked the land, bleed, sacrificed, and built this country. They were nobody important, nobody famous, but they were the salt that seasoned this land. I have as much of a right to be here, to have my beliefs respected, as anyone else.

Furthermore, and I don't know the history of Australia in this regard but I AM very aware of my own country's history, and here these same words and rhetoric are spoken in utter falsehood. They claim, time and time again, that this country was founded by, on, and for Christians. They do not know history at best and are attempting to rewrite it at worse. I'm fucking sick of it myself.

On top of that, it is not the right of a majority to impose itself on a minority. It only takes one experience AS a minority to pound it through your head as to why. It doesn't matter if 99% of the country is Christian, this doesn't mean that the 1% who isn't have no rights. It doesn't mean Christians are the only ones that get to plaster their religious beliefs every fucking place they can.

No, they do not just, "All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." What they are demanding is that THEIR religion, THEIR beliefs, THEIR culture, be deemed the only one that is the "real" culture. At least here in America, we are more than just white Europeans. White Europeans were not alone in building this country. They had a LOT of help from Africans forced to immigrate here, Mexicans who were already here, Chinese who built our railroads, and a variety of peoples from all over the globe. I can't imagine that Australia is all that different in this regard and these are the very same groups that are attacked by assholes like this guy.

Furthermore, at least in this country, the people saying that very same crap are actually claiming this over me as well. I fucking disagree with them! I have that right! Furthermore, if they are going to claim resident right over others then me and my blood very likely have AT LEAST as much purchase as theirs, and both of us less than the minorities (including hispanics) that were here before us! But these fucking simpletons don't recognize this and as a non-Christian American who doesn't buy this bullshit, I'm filed as a "traitor" for dissenting the "common view".

No, the people behind statements like this ARE biggots; I recognize this very same kind of person in my own land. I don't care if that means you'll ignore me now, the truth doesn't require your respect and such an action, even the threat, simply exposes an unwillingness to consider dissenting views and to declare your opinion the "truth"...and immune from being motivated by such human emotions as cultural or racial grouping. Such people utterly fail to recognize the contributions and the existance of people who are very different from them but have the same rights to exist, to not be hassled in the public marketplace by displays of YOUR religion, and to speak whatever fucking language they want. The fact that you only know one language is YOUR limitation, not theirs; it's not something to be proud of nor to use in an effort to limit or impede upon the interactions of others....or tell them where they can live.

And that doesn't even begin to get into the pure, unadulterated ignorance of expecting that you're the only one with the right to reside on one continent or another, nor that you have to learn to accept change and progress just like everyone else. Citizenship is, for most people, luck of birth. It is the immigrants who, more often than not, are the ones that actually understand and value what they gain by living in their CHOSEN country of residence. Natural borns just bitch and moan about everyone and never had to purchase a damn thing with one bit of effort on their own part; most don't even know half of the history, or methods and philosophy of their own government, required of an immigrant to become a citizen. I say that as one.

No sir, this is not YOUR culture; it is OUR culture. This is OUR country! This is OUR world! Learn that, please!

Sorry, I like you Wah...but I can't be with you here. Press the ignore button if you want. The man who made that speech is a biggot and that you agree with him does not speak well. You may find yourself in a majority opinion, but that only saddens me further. Treating other people in this way, demanding that they be like you or LEAVE, is not something I can support nor leave unchallenged.

The article that quotes that dumb fuck though...they say something I can agree with:


Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Not that they are told to get out, but they are told, in no uncertain terms, that they are required to be under the same laws as anyone else and do NOT have the right to impose new laws not approved by the society they live in. Sharia law especially repetedly violates numerous rights of the individuals under it. Nobody has the right to impose that set of laws, not even in their "own" country, and much less in one that doesn't agree with them.

They can hold to those values themselves, but that isn't what Sharia law is about. Sharia law extends to others and isn't only a personal set of moral values. Should a muslim wish to live under Sharia law only as far as it doesn't say what OTHER peolpe can or can't do...they have EVERY right to do so.

Furthermore, they, like any other resident of a democracy or republic, have the right to support and advocate the application of Sharia law in the government and public sphere. It is the public's responsibility to then go vote against it and keep their country free. Sharia law is at least as biggoted as the man I just railed against in the last two posts, but both have a right to say what they say...and I'll tell them to shove their shit back up their asses in both cases. That's how a society works.

I feel EXACTLY as he does, and don't for ONE MINUTE feel i am prejudice or judgemental in any way. It is here in America, and the UK for that matter, that we are founded on Christian beliefs and morals, and our language is ENGLISH!!! I am so sick of a government that folds up for the good of being POLITICALLY CORRECT...whatever the fuck that means!!! I have no qualms of any human being coming to this country to make a life for themselves if they choose to.....but understand that this is AMERICA, not wherever you came from, and if you want to be here, then you abide by the laws and culture that is here. It is 100% the fault of all of us, because we just allow it to happen by voting into leadership fucking soft, milktoast governments with their own agendas, not those of the people. For someone to say i need to learn another language just so i can communicate within a city only 30 minute drive from where i live is RIDICULOUS!!! We've allowed this to go on too long now, and i fear it may be too late. I think if the governments of the UK and America would get on board with Australia, we could maybe turn it around. But as long as we continue to allow big government to dictate to US how it will be, it will never change!!! Thank God the Ausy's have a man in government who is for the people, instead of for his own agenda........FUCK IT!!!........I'M MOVING TO AUSTRALIA!!!!! LOL!!!!

Actually, Wah, in searching for the original source for what you are quoting I'm running into some interesting data.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

The tone of these quotes is much more reasonable, levelheaded, and non-biggoted. Like I said in my agreement about Sharia law, they are simply saying that the laws in Australia are secular, not Sharia, and that people in Australia are expected to live under those laws, and not some other set they want to bring in.

http://forum2.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html

This is much of the same words and phrases you have quoted here being attributed to an American source and within a very American context. If that is true it would be no wonder I felt it hit so close to home.

I'd be very interested in seeing the source you got this from and figuring out who, what, and where the actual source of these quotes really is.

If only we could have a guy like this running our country . But i think its too late for England now .Tonight on the main ITN News another stabbing in London . A colored school girl . Shocking i know but what shocked me more was what was happening behind the Reporter .

Imagine Bob Geldof in Sudan giving us a speech about all the kids in need of help . You see all the little black kids jumping up and down , short thin afro weather beaten types , looking positively uneducated and staring and grinning inquisitively at this strange medium we all know as TV .

Well that was the scene in good old London ! . I turned to Linda and said can you believe that . It brought it all home . At the moment Blacks Mussies and Sikhs are stabbing and shooting one another . Its resembling Al Khurtum

I cannot believe this is happening .:chucks:

sure you don't want to call the Australian Prime Minister any more inappropriate names, NRoberts? :chucks:

how about some more personal attacks on the Prime Minister?

I find it hypocritical that many people who claim they have "liberal beliefs", with many of their liberal beliefs being extreme,
(with such liberal beliefs the presumption is that they are supposed to be tolerant of all others) are the people who are generally the least tolerant and accepting of others opinions.

I find it hypocritical that many people who claim they have "liberal beliefs", with many of their liberal beliefs being extreme,
(with such liberal beliefs they therefore are supposed to be tolerant of all others) are the people who are generally the least tolerant and accepting of others opinions.

I would suppose that the reason you find this hypocritical is two fold. First, you are assuming that liberals are "supposed to be" tolerant, and more than that, tolerant of everything. Toward that I will quote Sir Karl Popper after my reply to you and just point out that it's a ridiculous and hypocritical expectation.

Second of all, you assume that tolerate means to not disagree with. There is nothing intolerant about disagreeing with someone nor in disagreeing strongly. There is nothing intolerant in pointing out stupidity when you see it, intolerance when you see it, nor in expressing your opinion in a strong manner. I provided, it seems to me, ample reasoning behind by opinion that the original source of these statements is a bigot, among other things.

No, tolerate means that I accept his right to say it, not that I'm going to sit here in silence and not express my own opinion. To expect that of your opponent in philosophy is the real hypocrisy, at least as far as I see it. But hey, I will tolerate your right to call me a hypocrite even if I think you're opinion is flawed, baseless, and hypocritical.

In the regard that I accept and tolerate the man, his right to express his opinion (albeit a very stupid one), and will argue for that right at every turn, even against the man himself, I am holding quite true to my philosophy and my belief in liberalism as I see it. But thanks for allowing me the opportunity to point that out.

Karl Popper on tolerating intolerance:

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.


Emphasis added.

Along with my thoughts on the matter as expressed in my blog in March of 2007:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=116552056&blogID=237806513&Mytoken=27C00019-5DF5-4495-BE6C0D093D404DAA38836333

A more recent view along those same lines (my opinions and understanding are open to change):

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=116552056&blogID=401353697&Mytoken=0D957A3C-4A5F-45D2-99FEFC4327A203C61246915

Makes total sense to me.

I don't see why the majority should live in fear of the minority, how ever small a subset of that minority it actually turns out to be that are the so called "bad ones".

When 9/11 happened, there was a Muslim guy at a place I used to work who was whooping when he saw the news. That sickened me to hear.

And on top of that, to hear that England lets these people in to live and learn in our culture, only for them to be trained up for some work against us in the Lake District and other untouched area, is just mad.

Makes total sense to me. If you want to live here, respect our views and way of life just as we have gone out of our way to respect and not offend yours. If you can't, find somewhere else that can.

Can't really see how that isn't common sense to be honest...

:headscratch:

When 9/11 happened, there was a Muslim guy at a place I used to work who was whooping when he saw the news. That sickened me to hear.


i hope someone punched him? :maddance:


the aussies have got it so right.."when in rome...."
i remember when that boat load of illegals tried to get in. a bit different from the wankers over here who let those fucking plane hijackers free to live and stay here! :maddance:

i wanna live in oz now. :(

regards,
jim.

I couldn't agree more with what he said in honesty , i have np with anyone coming to this country if they are gonna pull there weight , i do have a problem with all these free loading wankers coming in and sponging of us then having the cheek to go out on our streets telling us that our country is a toilet and that we should all have our throats slit like pigs :mad:
Even tho im not religious you could imagine going to a islamic country and preaching on there streets about christianity , telling them that there religion is aload of rightious bollocks and that you want churchs built up all over the place , i think you would either find yourself in a dark cell someplace or hung in the middle of there city square :wtf:
I don't think its about racism , all the aussie PM is doing is looking after the best interest of his country , shame our two faced scheming bastards of a goverment don't do the same over here :mad:

Get a fucking grip all religions are pointless it is only a form of control and i for one am not a slave.Next it will be arguing what is the best colour ,yeh i can just see it now people running around shouting lets kill the blue bastards
Anyways as a warning to all religious groups dont come to my door you are not wanted ,look at the shite you have caused with your utter bullshit i wish you would all fuck off and leave us all in peace

When 9/11 happened, there was a Muslim guy at a place I used to work who was whooping when he saw the news. That sickened me to hear.


Mondy.
The same shit was going on live on Sky News at tea time on the day of the 911 attacks. They were jumping around and dancing. One bastard was shouting into the camera, "We'll bomb anyone, anything, at anytime we feel", there was a copper stood two feet away, he did fuck all!
I wanted to smash the fuckin' telly. :maddance:

When you go to places like Leeds, Bradford, Leicester etc you find out there's places in those cities at are dominated by muslims, places where you're told it's not advisible to go near if you're white. :headscratch:
Howay this is our fucking country, that shite should not be accepted as ok!
Even the muslims who are born here are not british in my eyes, they only want to know us when it's to their financial gain.
Yeah we really need to start uprooting them, getting them out, stick 'em on boats
and send them back to where they belong! If they won't go.....Auschwitz is still there!
To whoever.
Don't bother trying to have a go at me for the Auschwitz thing either,
cos when these fucker's end up with a nuke (and they will) we'll see no remorse.
Now where's me Einsatz gruppen uniform.

I have 4 kids, to me each one of them is worth thousands of those bastards.

Good for the Aussies.

Get a fucking grip all religions are pointless

Bang on mate! and you of all people know it only too well.

I'm almost positive the man who is quoted as saying these things is not the man who said them. I'm sure Wah got it from some source and didn't make it up himself, but I cannot find a legitimate source for these words associated with this man.

Quite the contrary, snopes has him quoted as saying very different things:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

I also only find this thing posted in blogs and forums. Some say this Costelo guy said them, some associate them with an, "Australian citizen," and some with an American of one form or another.

Furthermore, look at this passage:

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life,...

As far as I know, we Americans are rather unique in our obsession and worship of our flag. Other countries around the world just think of it as a flag, we put all of our value in it and really, truly, worship the thing. This is a very American sounding choice of words.

Finally, snopes agrees with me: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp

Another's research and rebuttal:
http://www.timlonghurst.com/blog/2005/12/19/part-one-our-country-you-have-the-right-the-right-to-leave/

It's no wonder I found this hit so close to home...it's exactly where it came from. I was, frankly, mildly surprised to find so MUCH Christian bigotry coming out of anyone's mouth but an American. It's a type of nationalism and racism that is unique to our country.

If they won't go.....Auschwitz is still there!
To whoever.
Don't bother trying to have a go at me for the Auschwitz thing either,
cos when these fucker's end up with a nuke (and they will) we'll see no remorse.

I won't have a go at you for the Auschwitz thing. I'll just say I think it interesting that I was exactly thinking, "Gee, this sounds exactly like what was said, and is said, about the Jews by every anti-Semitic asshole that ever lived," and then you actually went there yourself.

Yeah, I'm obviously very mistaken. There's absolutely no bigotry going on here.

Sometimes I really wish people would just stop for a moment and just listen to themselves. None of you are like this. I wouldn't have anything to do with you if you were.

I so admire this type of courage to speak up.Austraila is a model for what will be happening all over the free world in years to come.People are sick of having imigrants come to their country and expect seperate school's and seperate right's.Canada is no different and thanks to our aweful Liberal goverment of the past(who actualy encouraged multiculturalism) we are in the same boat now as Austraila, Denmark, Norway, and other generous free country's who opened up their door's and pockets.

To me the ultimate courage is to speak up even when considered politically incorect, we must or our social and beilief systems will be bankrupt and so will our original ideals that our forfathers died for.

Parker

I so admire this type of courage to speak up.Austrailia is a model for what will be happening all over the free world in years to come.People are sick of having imigrants come to their country and expect seperate school's and seperate right's.Canada is no different and thanks to our aweful Liberal goverment of the past(who actualy encouraged multiculturalism) we are in the same boat now as Austrailia, Denmark, Norway, and other generous free country's who opened up their door's and pockets.

To me the ultimate courage is to speak up even when considered politically incorect, we must or our social and beilief systems will be bankrupt and so will our original ideals that our forfathers died for.

Parker

here here!

alas, if that was said over here, he'd be labeled a nazi. :mad:

my crime is being an englishman..straight. that puts me at the back of the queue...

now if i was a screaming bender and a european muslim with 8 kids......


regards,
jim.

here here!

alas, if that was said over here, he'd be labeled a nazi. :mad:

my crime is being an englishman..straight. that puts me at the back of the queue...

now if i was a screaming bender and a european muslim with 8 kids......


regards,
jim.

Thanks Jim
My wife's family and mine have spilled allot of Canadian blood on the beaches and feilds of Country's far and wide to protect what we feel is an ideal society named Canada.No other Imigrant group has a right to tell us how we will serve them.And any group that put's religion above human life is not worthy of this country /society that our family's died for.

This is what gives me the right to speak my opinion.

I won't have a go at you for the Auschwitz thing. I'll just say I think it interesting that I was exactly thinking, "Gee, this sounds exactly like what was said, and is said, about the Jews by every anti-Semitic asshole that ever lived," and then you actually went there yourself.

Yeah, I'm obviously very mistaken. There's absolutely no bigotry going on here.

Sometimes I really wish people would just stop for a moment and just listen to themselves. None of you are like this. I wouldn't have anything to do with you if you were.

We are faced with a race that is so backward that even in this day and age it still let's a religion dictate it's whole life, even to the point where it is willing to kill those who even dare to mock it. A race that detests the success of the western world, that sends it's psychotic radicals (Holy men) into their own communities in our countries to stir up hatred against us all because they don't agree with our way of life.
They turn round and tell you muslims are a peaceful people, for a peaceful people there's a lot of them carrying AK-47's.:headscratch:
Islam says that all non muslims are infidels and that infidels must be converted or destroyed. Where do you go with that one?
I'll tell you for nowt were I go with it! (and you can label me a Nazi if you want)
In my book Abdul, Mohammed and co die before me or mine mate.
Nazi? Nah but a bit of their tactics dished out to the rightly deserving won't go a miss.

We are faced with a race that is so backward that even in this day and age it still let's a religion dictate it's whole life, even to the point where it is willing to kill those who even dare to mock it. A race that detests the success of the western world, that sends it's psychotic radicals (Holy men) into their own communities in our countries to stir up hatred against us all because they don't agree with our way of life.


Religion is not a race. Just like Jewishness is not a racial quality, Islam is not either. I actually have white, post-military friends who are Muslim. The battle is with religion, faith, and the abominations they produce. The battle is with radicalism, fascism, and violent intolerance...all of which you exhibit.

The way to solve this problem is to support the liberal movements in those countries that are most theocratic instead of artificially propping up those regimes in order to make our own lives easier. It is very interesting to me that those you rail against are likewise very anti-liberalism. I wish I could get there from here and post the image but I have a photo of a muslim protest in response to that fucking teddy bear bullshit. One of the signs held up says, "Liberalism go to hell!"


They turn round and tell you muslims are a peaceful people, for a peaceful people there's a lot of them carrying AK-47's.:headscratch:
Islam says that all non muslims are infidels and that infidels must be converted or destroyed. Where do you go with that one?


To the same place I go with the Christian bigotry displayed in the OP. The Bible says the same thing and even prescribes the methods by which you are to kill non-believers and "idolaters".


I'll tell you for nowt were I go with it! (and you can label me a Nazi if you want)
In my book Abdul, Mohammed and co die before me or mine mate.
Nazi? Nah but a bit of their tactics dished out to the rightly deserving won't go a miss.

You toss those that are on your side on that particular issue into the same death camp as those who are against you. You'll not win by destroying your friends nor by turning them into enemies.

What tactics are you supporting here? Gas chambers? The ovens? Burial pits? Working people to death? Be specific. Auschwitz implemented several seriously fucked up and evil "tactics". You talking Dr. Mengele here?

Are you simply just too naive and out of touch with history to understand exactly what you are saying when you say, "Auschwitz is still there?"

1. I didn't say religion is a race.
2. I'm not a christian, all religion is shit!
3. I'd prefer their original nazi solution which was ship them out.
At least with the muslims they have lands of their origins to go to,
and if the so called white muslims are that devout they wouldn't mind going too would they?
Both our countries have acted like Naz's in the past Noah. We did it in India. yours did on Japan and in Vietnam.

Oh the irony
on the news is the court case of one of seven british muslims who were foiled in their attemps to cause mid air explosions. that would've been innocent air crews, men, women, kids of all creeds dying for Islam idiologies. :maddance:

No, I can't carry this on with you Noah. Fuck! You live in the country that suffered the worst act of terrorism the west has ever seen. People like yourself Noah will help to be the west's downfall.

No, I can't carry this on with you Noah. Fuck! You live in the country that suffered the worst act of terrorism the west has ever seen. People like yourself Noah will help to be the west's downfall.

No. It is people like you, a Nazi by your own description, that will contribute to it and cheer it on. You'll be leading the charge.

You can call me wotever you want too Noah, but the fact is....
I don't feel the need to go to any other country to kill their innocent inhabitants.

If you want freedom, you have to take responsibility.
(To quote your ever present moniker Noah)

I don't wanna be Hi-Jacked,
I don't want planes blowing up in mid air over our heads,
I don't want the threat of my kids (or yours) being blown up while they're out shopping for Christmas presents or travelling on trains.
I want freedom from the threat of all those things.


Tell me wot path you will chose when you feel your freedom is threatened?

Tell me wot path you will chose when you feel your freedom is threatened?

Exactly what I'm doing now. I protect my freedom by arguing for and fighting for the freedoms of others instead of trampling them under foot because I'm scared shitless. "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering," to quote the great Yoda, "I sense much fear in you."

I DO take my freedom very responsibly and accept the moral responsibility to critically examine every belief I hold. Your baseless judgment of me is composed entirely of arrogance. Complete arrogance and the assumption that you and your view are right and responsible and nobody else's is, especially if they disagree; the very same arrogance expressed in this urban ledgend forgery that Wah posted.

It seems clear to me that you are a far, far way from spending as much time in self-doubt and questioning in your life than I do in a single day. I spend almost every waking moment meditating over just these kind of moral issues. Doesn't mean I'm right about everything, but at least I'm searching and testing the problems. I do believe I'm right about this though, and it seems very clear to me that your statements are based on fear and panic rather than reason.

You called yourself a Nazi. You have expressed sympathy for their policies and philosophy several times....explicitly. It's not surprising to me. It is the logical and eventual conclusion of this line of reasoning...or should I say, non-reasoning. You did this of your own volition and without any egging on by me whatsoever. I didn't lead you into it. I don't know if this is ignorance speaking or you really are a complete piece of shit, but I'm hoping the former. Frankly though, from a practical standpoint...it doesn't matter. The effect is the same: the support and advocation of the worse kind of human evil.

You are becoming the very same thing you are claiming to fight, and for the same reasons. Just because you don't put an Islamic face on it does not mean your totalitarian and violent reply to your fear is not exactly the same thing. Everyone is afraid; not everyone is ruled by it.

People should listen to themselves more often. Stop assuming you're immune from the same human weaknesses as everyone else and listen to yourself for bigotted views and fallacious reasoning. Listen to those that express concern about your views and ask if they are right. I've had my own pointed out right here in this forum and upon reflection agreed with the person and I said so. You might learn something from that.

So eat my ass with your assumptions and uncritical self-examination. You don't have to agree with me, but come upon me with better credibility than you have. Come at me when you're not quaking in your own terror. You're not even listening to yourself, how can you even hope to hear me?

If you want freedom, you have to take responsibility.
(To quote your ever present moniker Noah)

And just so you know, Dennett is not saying that freedom comes with responsibility. He's saying that freedom is exactly how much you DO take responsibility...definitively.

On and on and on. Fuck me! I rattled your cage well and proper didn't I?

Come to my country and live by its laws or get the fuck out, seems pretty straightforward to me.

On and on and on. Fuck me! I rattled your cage well and proper didn't I?

Nazi sympathisers and their rhetoric do that to me. What can I say? I fucking hate that shit and I won't shut up about it.

Come to my country and live by its laws or get the fuck out, seems pretty straightforward to me.

That is what the man originally said before this crap was attached to him, but that is not what the message of the original quote is. To illustrate that I would direct your attention to:

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society...

'Learn the language!'

and

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom...

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'

Laws are actually not mentioned at all in the quoted statement....that never actually happened. The actual origination of these statements appears to be an American soldier:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp

well call me ol fashioned but i prefer steves statement! :hug:

regards,
jim.

Straight forward it is aswell my son lol:lol:

:wavey: I knew you couldn't resist looking :lol:

Why the hell would I make it up Noah? What staggers me is that I live in an area that has a high Muslim population. I like people and I'd happily cross the road to get out of the way of as many idiots who are white and British, whatever they worship as well as any other colour or race or religion. I LIKE people but I don't like idiots who feel that killing 150 people in a market place will do anything to justify their cause and the belief that so many virgins are waiting for them in paradise?? NUTTERS simple as that.

Do you have children Noah? If you don't then you don't know what it's like to think of a future where a set of people are hell bent on EVERYBODY from 0 to 99 being killed for their beliefs. WHAT IS SO WRONG ABOUT TELLING IT HOW IT IS? Our Government has created a multi-cultural society that on the whole DOES NOT MIX! GREAT! No go areas in my own town because I may belive in christianity...I don't. I believe in common sense so if somebody wants to live in my country, preach hatred for all of my people YET CLAIM FREE HOUSING AND BENEFITS TO SEND BACK TO AN ILLEGAL ARMY TO COME AND BLOW MY PEOPLE UP THEN FUCK 'EM. I LIKE PEOPLE BUT I WON'T BE STEPPED UPON FOR SOME STUPID BELIEF. JOIN IN OR FUCK OFF!

AMEN !!!!!!!

Now where did i put that version of Gates of Babylon

Chris, you're banging your head against the wall. Mr. Politics here is blind to the reality of just how much of a threat these people are. It wouldn't suprise me if he believes 911 was a internally masterminded.
He's only interested in is proving himself right to everyone, afterall he is in a permanent a state of insanity,
and that must be true, his profile say's so. Get a look at his myspace page he's right up his own self loving arse.
Tell you wot I'd love to drop him off on Westbourne Street at 2:30 in the morning to see how his martial arts black belt
helps him against a gang of 20 odd pakistani's armed with Stanley knives and screwdrivers.

Do you have children Noah?


Nope.


If you don't then you don't know what it's like to think of a future where a set of people are hell bent on EVERYBODY from 0 to 99 being killed for their beliefs.


Don't know what makes you think that. Do you really think there's nobody I care about? Just because you're a breeder doesn't mean you're the only one that has loved ones or worries about the future. Don't be so damn governed by your fears that you become part of the problem.


WHAT IS SO WRONG ABOUT TELLING IT HOW IT IS?


Nothing. Isn't that what I did? I certainly think so.


Our Government has created a multi-cultural society that on the whole DOES NOT MIX! GREAT! No go areas in my own town because I may belive in christianity...I don't. I believe in common sense so if somebody wants to live in my country, preach hatred for all of my people YET CLAIM FREE HOUSING AND BENEFITS TO SEND BACK TO AN ILLEGAL ARMY TO COME AND BLOW MY PEOPLE UP THEN FUCK 'EM.


If those things are not illegal in your country then yes, you've got some serious problems.

Want to set up anti-hatered incitement laws, I'm there...if they aren't so naive as to set it up FOR those who would use it to trample my right to call their religion bullshit and do not inhibit legitimate expressions of criticism or ridicule.

Want to make the incitement to murder a criminal offense? To make shouting of, "Behead those who insult Islam," a prosecutable offense? I am so there.

Want to track down and put away every murdering mother fucker around? I'm there so long as you don't trample every human right and law in the land to do it. I fear those who would destroy freedom and humanity to save their lives more than those who would take mine, as this great dialog in A Man For all Seasons illustrates:


William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!


Want to tell people they either share your views of culture, the flag, the pledge, and Christianity that you do or get the fuck out of YOUR country? I'm going to tell you to fuck the hell off.


I LIKE PEOPLE BUT I WON'T BE STEPPED UPON FOR SOME STUPID BELIEF. JOIN IN OR FUCK OFF!

It's fuck off then, because I can't go with you on your chosen response to the problem. The message you quoted is full of national, religious, and racial bigotry. I won't support it in any way. I don't see any difference between those people and the OTHER people trying to blow us all up.

Totalitarianism is totalitarianism. I don't care what religion or culture is behind it.

Chris, you're banging your head against the wall.
Mr. Political do gooder here is blind to the reality of just how much of a threat these people are.
I'd love to drop him off on Westbourne Street at 2:30 in the morning.

You're a fool.

Pete, these 'people' are a minority as always and I said at the beginning of this thread, I'm not racist. Over 25 years down south I've got Asian and Afro Caibbean friends and THEY hate these fuckers with a vengeance because they are giving them a bad name. The original arguement of 'going home' doesn't apply to 90 per cent...they were born in this country and have rights BUT if you catch a thief in your town, you lock him up...why not a bomber? You can write as many words as you like Noah but NO-ONE agrees with you on this one because it's not about racism with most people. It's seeing some fuking idiot at a Mosque trying to recruit people with learning difficulties to become bomb mules...and the people doing the talking are usually milking a system they abhorr DRY. It never seases to amaze me how these evil ranters are on benefits...one guy was found with £150K in his house?! WHAT TYPE OF PRINCIPALS DOES A PERSON BERATING A SOCIETY YET TAKING ALL THEY CAN GET THEIR HANDS ON HAVE TO OFFER.

At the same time, I look at my town centre at 2am on a Saturday morning and I'd happily send those fuckers out of here as they break the town and each other with sharp knives. I LIKE people but hate fucking idiots. My last word on it because our useless fucks in parliament will NEVER agree with the words of the Australian Prime Minister...we set this off on ourselves a few hundred years ago but now need to be a bit harder and stop feeling the need to apologise for our forefathers wrongdoings. MOVE THE FUCK ON.

I'm a Breeder? I'm a Father you fucking idiot and until you've been one you'll realise that EVERYBODY else comes an unclose 2nd in that race. I have never had words with you Noah because you like to fight with words and there's nothing wrong with that UNTIL you get to a point where quoting clever words is at the detriment of the original point. I put a post up asking if this was racist or common sense. EVERYBODY replied common sense except for yourself (to be expected AND that not meant as an insult...opinions differ and this was NOT a poll). BUT to call me racist and a breeder???...well, you just shot your own nuts off in this arguement. One you have no idea of and the second you are WAAAAAAAAY off target. I feel justified in calling you a fucking idiot...take it as verbal swordfencing or take it as a fuck you! I'm done this time!!

And A Haaaappy New Yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar !!!!!

I love the way you only part quote me Noah.

I'll tell you this for nowt. I've been sat pissing meself laughing, and winding you up for most of the day. Soon as I saw your first reply I decided you were my target. My only regret is I couldn't see you popping vessels on webcam. Your mysapce page has the slogan. I have no propensity for arrogance. Is that right? If so how come you usually display it everytime you come on here? Reality check Noah.
"I couldn't give as fuck wot you think of me, you see you mean nothing to me! Mr Insignificant. So shove your $60 to $75,000 dollars a year right up your shitter pal Alright?"

Here's a little secret, You look like replacing Ukele as my favourite wind up toy, So remember, keep biting! :lol:

popular place this eh ????? :slap:

I'm a Breeder? I'm a Father you fucking idiot and until you've been one you'll realise that EVERYBODY else comes an unclose 2nd in that race. I have never had words with you Noah because you like to fight with words and there's nothing wrong with that UNTIL you get to a point where quoting clever words is at the detriment of the original point. I put a post up asking if this was racist or common sense. EVERYBODY replied common sense except for yourself (to be expected AND that not meant as an insult...opinions differ and this was NOT a poll). BUT to call me racist and a breeder???...well, you just shot your own nuts off in this arguement. One you have no idea of and the second you are WAAAAAAAAY off target. I feel justified in calling you a fucking idiot...take it as verbal swordfencing or take it as a fuck you! I'm done this time!!

Actually wah, I called the person who wrote the original text you quoted as a bigot. If you do take his side though then I have to say that you just may qualify for that adjective.

As to the breeder part...sort of tounge in cheek but meant to indicate that your status as a father doesn't buy you as much as you seem to think it does here. Nobody has the right to abuse the rights of others and their children for the sake of their own, no matter how much they may want to. Furthermore you seem to want to disqualify me from the discussion because I do not have children because apparently that means I don't have anyone I care about JUST as much as you do your own children (I have neices, nephews, and other close kin that I very much care for and I'll burn anyone who harms them just as quick as you) and this is just plain chicken-shit crap.

You're begging sympathy from me to perform what I see as rather dispicable acts. Do you not realize that the people who want to murder you because of your lack of belief in Islam want to kill you for the very exact reason you just cited? We, as westernized people serve as the greatest danger to the culture of militant Islam that there could possibly be. We threaten their very way of life simply by living our own and this reaches deep into their own protective feelings toward their own children.

As Sam Harris explains very well in his book, every action of theirs can be explained if one simply accepts that they really believe what they say they believe. A person that threatens the eternal destination of your children is a MUCH greater threat than one who will simply kill them. If you really, honestly believed that someone was contributing to the corruption of your children can you really say you would not murder them? I child molester for instance...I think you clearly would and I would be very tempted to help you.

Your wish to expell people from your country for not supporting Christianity, your flag worship, etc...(since you seem to be personally connecting with what the OP said) is no more a right of yours because of your children, then their murderous intent is a right for theirs!

You do a great disservice to the world when you forget your enemy is human and motivated by human desires...just like you. Understand him and you stand a better chance of protecting yourself, your country, and your children.

Protection of children IS a great motivating factor. It tends to make people's fear that much more potent and some are powerless to still be reasonable under this spell. But we ALL fear for the future. Some are just that much more ready to destroy it for its own sake.

Frankly, if anything...the fact that you're a father and are using this as justification for your fear motivated philosophy would tend to, from my perspective, disqualify you from setting policy. It requires a level head and you don't seem to be able to remain level headed when it comes to this.

Pertaining to the popularity of your view...like I said, I just find that rather sadening. People should spend more time listening to themselves. You're letting your fear destroy you Wah. That is, of course, your enemy's goal.

Terrorism works? We shall see. It seems to be so far.

get off of your belly

:popcorn:

Want to tell people they either share your views of culture, the flag, the pledge, and Christianity that you do or get the fuck out of YOUR country? I'm going to tell you to fuck the hell off.


NO! We don't demand that newcomers share our views and necessarily adopt our culture, flag and religion (whatever that may be).

We, the 'common' but seemingly unheard folk only want that new immigrants to this country ...

1. learn to deal with us, the people who are native to this country (and this INCLUDES any previously naturalised non-caucasian folk already here ... not just the white, aryan people) on EQUAL terms.

2. NOT to expect preferential treatment because the government is too weak-minded to make them stand in line and wait their turn like the rest of us ... in the interest of not 'insulting' the culture they may bring with them.

3. NOT to belittle and attempt to override the culture and customs which were already in place and to take unfair advantage of the so called traditional 'tolerance for others' that is inherent in our natural society.

4. NOT to cry 'foul' when they're NOT given preferential treatment over and above that received by the already-native folk.

5. Make the effort to learn to communicate with us, the native folk in our own language.

6. Learn to INTEGRATE with us, instead of attempting to DOMINATE us.

7. NOT to attack us with one hand, while taking every possible state handout and social, monetary aid from our government with the other (and as implied, using that aid to finance subversive and terrorist activities either here, or abroad).

8. NOT to seek to destroy the predominant religion(s) or suchlike that are already an inherent part of our culture ... and to supplant it with their own. There is room for all faiths, which are tolerant of ... or at least outwardly and practically non-hostile to others.

Why should we, the native people be made to feel unsafe and unwanted in our own home country?

Note again that I only say people ... not just white, Christian people only.

I call this country home to ANYONE who wants their life to be here and is willing to ADAPT to fit in with the quirks, idiosyncricities and peculiarities which make up this country, to observe and obey the laws and customs here despite any conflicts there may be with the culture of wherever they originated from.

If I emigrated to America and elected to become a citizen, would I not have to take the oath of allegience in order to make it my home and become a citizen? Similarly so if I were to move to Australia.

The key is to not seek to overthrow the 'status quo' of the host country and not contravene the law and customs of the people we live amongst ... and also to learn the language so that understanding and empathy can grow from communication and minimizing the distance between our points of view instead of amplifying misunderstanding and hate instead. Surely, this is the only true way to integrate?

I got to the bit about being a bigot and my loving my kids being disgraceful as I should have a level head and I obviously haven't if I can't seperate my thoughts from them and think about all the children of the world...and that was enough. How do you fight your corner in a round boxing ring noah? Bed-time...this rot ain't worth staying up for..

I got to the bit about ... my loving my kids being disgraceful

Never said that. I mean, just to be honest about what was said and what wasn't.

I'm clearly mistaken about you not having a level head about this.

NO! We don't demand that newcomers share our views and necessarily adopt our culture, flag and religion (whatever that may be).

The original message text did. It is directly toward that bullshit that I objected. I have nothing against, and in fact support, the application of the law in a fair, unbiased manner. I do not support extremists having their own laws in their country of residence seperate from or in extension to what is in place for anyone else.

Furthermore, I pointed out, several times in fact, that the original text is a forgery that has been around the Internet for ages and that the actual statements by the Prime Minister are exactly what I just illustrated and are things I support whole heartedly.

I will not support bigotry simply because it is attached to something I happen to agree with. The original message was full of it...and of a particularly *American* kind.

I could support many of the things that you just mentioned in your list IF you could show that there actually is a problem in that area, and not just because you say there is. I expect this of anyone, including those I happen to agree with, and I really wish everyone was so careful in chosing who they get behind.

I'm clearly mistaken about you not having a level head about this.

"You mistaken? How can that be oh great one? Choke on that humble pie cocknose"



"There's nowt quite like proving yourself right to everyone is there Noah?" :lol:
C'mon bite

Probably one of the most illustrative points is of open-air market traders and taxi-drivers a couple of years ago, who wanted to celebrate being 'British' being told by local government officers to remove their Union flags from their taxis and market stalls ... because the sight of the symbol of British culture was 'insulting' to the muslim community.

Now take Abu Hamza (now deported Stateside), who for a long time incited hatred in UK amongst his muslim followers here... directed against Christianity ... while taking state benefits and handouts from the British culture he was preaching against.

Last year .... a cell of terrorists who attempted to attack Glasgow International Airport ... amongst them at least one muslim doctor employed at a local hospital ... I would assume that he'd taken the Hippocratic oath ... to do no harm?

Leave it now Big J. He can't see it! He probably don't live within 50 miles of a muslim area.

Good night Noah mate :wavey:

My only regret is I couldn't see you popping vessels on webcam.


You look like replacing Ukele as my favourite wind up toy, So remember, keep biting! :lol:


You BASTARD!! I just about pissed myself over this!!!! I think I almost popped a vessel laughing so hard!!!!:lol: :lol:

By the way....WE are ALL right!!!!

:popcorn:

Ahhaaaahhaaaaa i just about shit myself laughing when i saw this!!.

Classic PodGod...Classic:lol:

Probably one of the most illustrative points is of open-air market traders and taxi-drivers a couple of years ago, who wanted to celebrate being 'British' being told by local government officers to remove their Union flags from their taxis and market stalls ... because the sight of the symbol of British culture was 'insulting' to the muslim community.

Now take Abu Hamza (now deported Stateside), who for a long time incited hatred in UK amongst his muslim followers here... directed against Christianity ... while taking state benefits and handouts from the British culture he was preaching against.


I would agree that these indicate problems if they did happen. Frankly, you Europeans have very strange ideals pertaining to freedom of speech. For instance the fact that holocaust denial is a jailable offense in many European countries simply baffles me. Your laws are, perhaps in many cases, too quick to suppress the freedom of speech for the sake of not offending people while at the same time too slow, as are ours, to react to serious problems like incitement to murder. I don't agree with this and never have. I've always thought it would turn and bite you in the ass.

I do not believe anyone has the right to incite murder. This is not speech. Like I said before, if you want to develop a law that places serious penalties on such threats and incitement I would be right next to you signing the petition...assuming there wasn't some nastiness masking itself in the back. The people holding those signs should be arrested, brought up on charges, and put in jail. This is a perfectly legitimate thing for a society to do with a criminal element in its midst...and such people, white or brown, Muslim or Christian, are criminals. Threats of violence should simply not be tolerated.

But let us not confuse criminals with those exercising perfectly legitimate rights to bitch about any number of things, including the display of religious materials in government institutions and thus violating the Constitution, the continued insertion of God into every piece of public infrastructure such as our money, pledge, etc. Let's also not confuse criminals with those exercising their perfectly legitimate right to practice their own cultures, dress in whatever weird shit they want, speak in whatever fucked up language they want (even if nobody can understand shit all they're saying) and just generally being odd and increasingly different from us culturally.

The message quoted in the OP actually talked about these things, not about any of the other stuff that people are objecting to. I find having to sit through a menu item that says, "Press 1 for English," moderately annoying. It's not something worth worrying about nor is it a threat to my person, my country, or my culture.


Last year .... a cell of terrorists who attempted to attack Glasgow International Airport ... amongst them at least one muslim doctor employed at a local hospital ... I would assume that he'd taken the Hippocratic oath ... to do no harm?

Maybe you guys should do something about that doctor problem you have. It might be prudent to place spies in medical schools and hospitals, limit their travel opportunities, and deport them en-mass. Furthermore, I really think that they need to stop speaking in Greek and Latin or get the fuck out. I can't understand any of that shit.

Nazi sympathisers and their rhetoric do that to me. What can I say? I fucking hate that shit and I won't shut up about it.


(edited out by me as it goes against GB policy of posting), who the hell do you think you are calling people Nazi's and claiming to be our moral supperior.If you want to fight and spout off your diatribe, do it with others who welcome this type of insane argumentitive debate.
This is a guitar web site not the ACLU

Sorry i edited out my first statement after going through and reading the Guitar Blast Policy Statement.

Ahhaaaahhaaaaa i just about shit myself laughing when i saw this!!.

Classic PodGod...Classic:lol:

Me too!!!!! Perfect!!! It doesn't get any better than that! I'll be back, gotta go make some pop corn....

(edited out by me as it goes against GB policy of posting), who the hell do you think you are calling people Nazi's and claiming to be our moral supperior.If you want to fight and spout off your diatribe, do it with others who welcome this type of insane argumentitive debate.
This is a guitar web site not the ACLU

Sorry i edited out my first statement after going through and reading the Guitar Blast Policy Statement.

The person to whom I was replying stated that if "they" don't leave, Auschwitz is still there, and said, in their own words, that he would support the implementation of Nazi policies.

Given that this is true, I do not think it is either calling people "names" nor claiming moral superiority to refer to the person as a Nazi sympathizer.

(edited out by me as it goes against GB policy of posting), who the hell do you think you are calling people Nazi's and claiming to be our moral supperior.If you want to fight and spout off your diatribe, do it with others who welcome this type of insane argumentitive debate.
This is a guitar web site not the ACLU

Sorry i edited out my first statement after going through and reading the Guitar Blast Policy Statement.

Parker, welcome to Noah's world. Believe me, friend...you will avoid shaving about 4 to 5 years off your life expectancy if you leave this thread now and do not participate any further (nor any other controversial debates with him). I used to debate with Noah until I eventually came into complete clarity about the futility of it. Let me save you a lot of time and energy by jumping you ahead to the conclusion you would eventually come to if you follow this path....."debating" with Noah will lead you down a dead-end road of pointless frustration with no positive, productive outcome that couldn't just as well be achieved by arguing with yourself in the mirror. Don't get sucked into the vortex! :)

P.S. Thanks for having the general respect and courtesy of checking and abiding by the GB policies. It would be really great if other community members...*cough-cough*...Noah...*cough-cough* held the same sense of respect for others here too.

Racism or Religionism? If that was the topic, then I would say in a truely free country, you have the right to express whatever you want....as long as no one is hurt in the process. I do believe in majority rule. It is part of the package. If we speak of a "Government for the people, by the people," then if it's a majority (like and election process), then the majority rules...even if unpopular with some or unfair to others. As long as you pacify a minority, then we are not free...we are under a puppeteers' hands. Imo.

Racism or Religionism? If that was the topic, then I would say in a truely free country, you have the right to express whatever you want....as long as no one is hurt in the process. I do believe in majority rule. It is part of the package. If we speak of a "Government for the people, by the people," then if it's a majority (like and election process), then the majority rules...even if unpopular with some or unfair to others. As long as you pacify a minority, then we are not free...we are under a puppeteers' hands. Imo.

I don't believe this is true, that it's as simple as, "majority rules." It's also not the way our government was intended to be set up either (you are US, right?). This can be explained relatively well and briefly by simply bringing up the one event in history that most scared our founders, or at least the ones we still read: the execution of Socrates.

Athens was a democracy in the sense that you are expressing here. It was a purely majority rules government. It was of course limited to a certain class of people considered "citizens" (which did not include women, slaves, etc...) but it was set up so that whatever the majority decided...went.

Socrates was someone that pissed everyone off, much as I seem to. He did this by asking questions and repeatedly challenging the common view. I greatly advocate reading his works and arguments (Euthyphro, crito, etc..). He is only know through others, much like Jesus, but he is known. Now the fact that he pissed everyone off resulted in his being charged with impiety...and, of course, since the court system was just like everything else, ruled by majority entirely, he was found guilty and sentenced to death.

Jefferson and others equated democracy with mob rule and had no intention of setting up such a government. They instead set up a republic in which, supposedly, it was not simply a case of majority rules but was set up with checks against the mob mentality, present in any society, and protected minority groups and opinions. Our definition of "democracy" has since changed to include what is called a republican democracy, which we are, but the old one really was "majority rules" and our founders were very much against it.

What they did intend, and what makes us what we now call a democracy, is universal voice and representation. Everyone has a voice that can be used to advocate a position and cede for change in our government. But it really isn't majority rules.

The reason is rather clear. With majority rules nobody actually has any freedom. Their freedom only extends so far as is arbitrarily deemed appropriate by the masses. The "public" has no sense of morality or fair play and is easily motivated by fear, prejudice, and triviality. Mob rule is tyranny and it doesn't work as a form of government.

P.S. Thanks for having the general respect and courtesy of checking and abiding by the GB policies. It would be really great if other community members...*cough-cough*...Noah...*cough-cough* held the same sense of respect for others here too.

It's interesting, I actually can't seem to find the policy to find what you might be referring to.

Im right !!!!!...........................

AMEN !!!

:popcorn: ...and Noah still bites...this could go on forever:lol:

I'm a Breeder?

I apologize for offending with that remark. It wasn't meant as such.

That is all.

The person to whom I was replying stated that if "they" don't leave, Auschwitz is still there, and said, in their own words, that he would support the implementation of Nazi policies.
Given that this is true, I do not think it is either calling people "names" nor claiming moral superiority to refer to the person as a Nazi sympathizer.

....and to think I actually sided with you on your right to come here and spout your shite not that long ago. :dunno:

Let me start by putting you straight here Noah you fucking pius prick.
The Nazi stuff that is in my profile. is there for one reason Noah. Hint. He's an aggitating yank twat similar to yourself, but he lives in spain, it stops him bothering me and at the same time gets his fucking back up. Is the picture becoming clearer yet Noah?
I spent most of yesterday stringing you along, laughing at you while you were going :maddance: and getting your hero cape in all of a tangle.
I bet you were even chewing on the carpet.
You may be a well educated bloke Noah but you don't half set yourself up for pasting from us lowlifes.
You read far too much into the things people say, people like you often do!
Someone says something and you automatically kick off into lecture mode.
That annoy's the shit out of people, and you know that too!

I find it quite funny how you hadn't been on here for quite a while
then when someone mentions something of a political nature, up you pop like a jack in the box. (Like you where watching from the wings)
I don't think I've ever seen you mention anything musically related on here.
Is that one of the areas where you feel out of your depth Noah?


1st officer. "Herr Capitan zer ist somesing strange on ze pinger thing"
Captain. "Up periscope!....Ah yes I see vot it iz, it's iz zat farking noah in his ark,
he has ze vind against his sails yet he still persists...lets us be done viz ziss untermensch....Fire torpedoes von und two schnell".

"Shut the fuck up now Noah, no one cares!"

pity we dont have freedom of speech in this country, it would kill racism overnight. as it is now the do gooders want to change kids nursery rymes like "baa baa coloured sheep have you any wool" any mention of the word "black" results in a court case.

if i was called a "honky piece of shit" i woudnt bat an eyelid..."sticks n stones" and all that. if i reported that to the police the'd probably piss themselves laughing. now if i called someone a "black bastard" it would be a COMPLETELY different scenario.
a similar scene is if i put an ad in for job applicants " preference given to hetrosexuals" the shit woul;d hit the fan! whereas "gay applicants given priority" goes unchallenged.

this, coupled with the millions of so called "asylum seekers" [ who will be named "sanctury seekers" because asylum has a negative ring to it FFS!!]
who incidently have traveled through 4-5 asylum offering countries to get here, shows just what a SHIT STATE this countries in.

i wonder how pennsylvania would cope with a few million "asylum seekers" gobbling up their jobs and homes? its a similar sized land mass to england.

regards,
jim.

Lets all just take a step back guys, alot of this is decending to personal attacks, and im sure thats not why this thread was started, but to highlight political problems that alot of countrys are facing.

You are all entitled to your opinions, its a free(ish) world, but lets keep it civil, there is no need to be having a go at each other, its a friendly forum, lets keep it that way.

....and to think I actually sided with you on your right to come here and spout your shite not that long ago. :dunno:

Let me start by putting you straight here Noah you fucking pius prick.
The Nazi stuff that is in my profile. is there for one reason Noah. Hint. He's an aggitating yank twat similar to yourself, but he lives in spain, it stops him bothering me and at the same time gets his fucking back up. Is the picture becoming clearer yet Noah?
I spent most of yesterday stringing you along, laughing at you while you were going :maddance: and getting your hero cape in all of a tangle.
I bet you were even chewing on the carpet.
You may be a well educated bloke Noah but you don't half set yourself up for pasting from us lowlifes.
You read far too much into the things people say, people like you often do!
Someone says something and you automatically kick off into lecture mode.
That annoy's the shit out of people, and you know that too!

I find it quite funny how you hadn't been on here for quite a while
then when someone mentions something of a political nature, up you pop like a jack in the box. (Like you where watching from the wings)
I don't think I've ever seen you mention anything musically related on here.
Is that one of the areas where you feel out of your depth Noah?


1st officer. "Herr Capitan zer ist somesing strange on ze pinger thing"
Captain. "Up periscope!....Ah yes I see vot it iz, it's iz zat farking noah in his ark,
he has ze vind against his sails yet he still persists...lets us be done viz ziss untermensch....Fire torpedoes von und two schnell".

"Shut the fuck up now Noah, no one cares!"
Just for the record, before you edit it. Bud, you are an asshole. Period. Second time I see you mentioning me on this thread, and not even came in. But that´s enough of it. Got any prob, PM me again if you wish, like you pathetically have done before. Over and out.

Just for the record, before you edit it. Bud, you are an asshole.

Glad I make you feel that way now at last our feelings are mutual!

Got any prob, PM me again if you wish, like you pathetically have done before. Over and out.

Funny innit I seem to recall only answering to your pm's, you know the one's where you are asking me to do a collab with you and all the while telling me wot a sincere bloke you are. Talk about pathetic!:tard: I've put nowt ih this thread that I haven't already told you before you just don't accept it. You and this tit Noah may as well be twins. So do one dickhead unless of course you're prepared to jump on a plane and come see me?
You're a fucking nugget!

Oh aye I edit for two reasons.
1. Spelling is sometimes amiss/Keyboard sometimes doesn't type letters.
2. Post lay out!

Funny innit I seem to recall only answering to your pm's, you know the one's where you are asking me to do a collab with you and all the while telling me wot a sincere bloke you are. Talk about pathetic!:tard: I've put nowt ih this thread that I haven't already told you before you just don't accept it. You and this tit Noah may as well be twins. So do one dickhead unless of course you're prepared to jump on a plane and come see me?
You're a fucking nugget!
Nother one for the record. Sure, wanna collab? :woot:Get a life. Hey it´s wednesday, get your ass moving and do some productive work.

Thats more than enough guys, leave it at that.

Just because you're a breeder

Interesting choice of words. Are you gay ?

Interesting choice of words. Are you gay ?

Thats more than enough guys, leave it at that.

:stick:

Genuinely curious, only time I've heard the term being used in this context...

:dunno:

this, coupled with the millions of so called "asylum seekers" [ who will be named "sanctury seekers" because asylum has a negative ring to it FFS!!]
who incidently have traveled through 4-5 asylum offering countries to get here, shows just what a SHIT STATE this countries in.

i wonder how pennsylvania would cope with a few million "asylum seekers" gobbling up their jobs and homes? its a similar sized land mass to england.


I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying that countries shouldn't provide asylum for those that need it? If so, then for the most part I strongly disagree with this as well. To explain, I think I'd just like to illustrate with a shameful piece of American history.

During WWII, a boat load of jews--and I'm talking a boat load, an entire ocean liner--arrived in an American harbor (I could look up the details if requested) and requested assylum. Women, children, and entire families of people just wanting to live. Now it should be realized that what was being done with the Jews in Germany was known, perhaps not quite to the degree since nobody had seen, first hand, the result, but the policy was something everyone knew about. We turned them away, we didn't want a boat load of Jews coming in, "taking jobs"...all the crap people say jews do...and so we told them to fuck off.

So they turned south and tried sought asylum at Cuba. We, having much economic interest in that country at the time, blocked that move as well.

As far as I know, nobody knows what happened to them. When I heard about it, which was actually fairly recently (sadly we are not taught about events like this anywhere), it was said they returned to Germany. If so, they would of course have all been killed.

Although the same arguments were used then as now, protecting American jobs and such, it was obviously an action based entirely on prejudice. I really have a hard time seeing it as anything else now for I haven't seen any concrete data that immigrants really are taking jobs from natives in any of the countries with people bitching about immigrants. Furthermore, the cry to protect jobs has, in my experience, always been a surface layer excuse that is actually emotionally motivated. This is why the Jewish branch of my own family immigrated here illegally in the late 1800's; hostility toward Jews was rampant in that age.

Personally, I think that's just shit. When a boat load of people that are under threat of murder come to you for help, it really seems to me that there's no question at all, you do everything you can to help. Stepping into how and why this can be justified in completely rational terms and not just a wish to be nice would require an extremely long post (and people already complain that I'm too verbose) so I won't go there, but it can be justified if we chose to remain a moral people, which I think we do want to.

If you're interested in that actually you can go to my myspace and read the recent blog called something like, "A step for change." I can't get there from work to cite directly. I will warn you though, it's really, really long...as any thesis on morality would be. I do go into several specifics about what I think is wrong in our societies today and prescribe what we can, perhaps, do about it. So it's not like I'm just rambling for no reason there. I'm not done thinking about it, but I do think I'm onto something with this.

Interesting choice of words. Are you gay ?

Nope, just a single guy that hasn't been laid in a while.

Why, are you?

Not one to throw a cat amongst the pigeons but are you wanting to have a relationship with Noah :lol: :tard:

Nope, just a single guy that hasn't been laid in a while.
No shit Sherlock?
I reckon that's cos you probably bore the life out of them Noah.:lol:

"I know, I know I should really resist doing this."

Nope, just a single guy that hasn't been laid in a while.

Why, are you?

Camp, maybe. Gay, no.

But then I'm not the one going around using gay terms in conversation, hence the confusion.

:headscratch:

Not one to throw a cat amongst the pigeons but are you wanting to have a relationship with Noah :lol: :tard:

Ah come on now, we've both had worse...

:notme:

my point being the so called european "asylum seekers" that come here, travel through 4-5 countries that offer asylum which they ignore...reason? because they know they can PONCE here!

even the euro workers, just here to nick our jobs not settle, their women back home can claim family BENEFITS from US!

if i work in poland can i claim that? CAN I BOLLOX!

us natives of this small isle are sick to the fucking teeth of being 3rd class citizens, and for this goverment letting europe take us for 18 carat cunts!

nothing racial or anti semetic...just enough is enough!

regards,
jim.

Well said James!
We have some filipino's where I work. everyear some of them go back home to see relatives, this means that they have to leave work for over a month. So our employer tells them they have to resign their posts, they know the job will be there for them on their return.
There is one however, who back in early march (this year) all of a sudden put a six week sicknote in. (Fuck! When I broke my wrists I could only get one for two week periods at a time) Wot the sly bastard had done is feign sickness so he could go back to the philipines, anyhow when the six weeks were over there was still no sign of him returning.
Suddenly our HR dept is telling us he's had heart trouble, that's why he's still not back.
Everyday for a further three weeks our daily staff attendence sheet is stating that he has a sick note pending?
(I know wot would happen if we tried that for three weeks without putting one in)
Eventually on the 19th of May this twat returns to work all smug with not a sign of any illness or surgery having taken place. On the 21st of may he swans into work showing pics of his brand new 5 bedroom house complete with pool he's just had build back over there. So basically he's claimed sickness benefit to avoid resigning from work, knowing all along that the £68 - £70 a week he's falsely claiming is worth double back in his own country, all the while stealing our taxes to fund his illness/holiday scam.

Camp, maybe. Gay, no.

But then I'm not the one going around using gay terms in conversation, hence the confusion.

:headscratch:

I guess I'm just happily ignorant of gay terms. They just keep cropping up.

When anyone has time, please click on the link and read "The Speech" that Ronald Reagan gave in 1964. A life long Democrat, he decided he'd had enough and turned Republican. If this doesn't ring as true today as it did in 1964 during the Cold War, then I can't talk to Liberals any longer. It's long speech, so Noah should enjoy it. I'm sure he'll have a rebutal, but nothing he can say will convince me that Reagan was wrong, especially now.
When a Liberal Democrat [Obama or Clinton] or liberal Republican [McCain] get's elected, we are so screwed. And we've already got a liberal Republican in office....yikes!

http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/rendezvous.asp

Peace brothers.

ooooo i need your love babe ......eight days a week :boobies:

my point being the so called european "asylum seekers" that come here, travel through 4-5 countries that offer asylum which they ignore...reason? because they know they can PONCE here!


I don't claim to know the motivations of other people when I don't know anything about them. If you provided some sort of information on exactly what, who, and in what number...some source for your statement here...maybe I'd agree with you, maybe not.

I would find it strange if people are coming to UK seeking asylum from European countries. Maybe I'm out of touch with what is going on over there but I can't think of any that are currently in such a state as to legitimize that claim. Bosnia, Croatia, and other Eastern block countries at one time to be sure, but isn't that shit fairly settled down at the moment?


even the euro workers, just here to nick our jobs not settle, their women back home can claim family BENEFITS from US!


I would imagine that the whole EU thing is only going to make the situation more uncomfortable for you as time goes on then. It seems clear that the goal is to unite Europe under one economy and that would logically lead into complete freedom for citizens of the EU to work anywhere in Europe. You'll end up more like US states than hard-bordered countries; I could work in Oregon with little restriction as far as I know. I have a feeling that America will be seeing something like this soon as well with regard to Canada and Mexico.

I don't know how I feel about globalization--I guess I'm in favor for the most part but not without concerns--but it's certainly a change that IS coming that we have to learn to live with. Getting pissed off at each other for taking advantage of the opportunities it creates isn't going to help that.


if i work in poland can i claim that? CAN I BOLLOX!


Have you checked? Is this a state policy or one dictated by individual employers?


us natives of this small isle are sick to the fucking teeth of being 3rd class citizens, and for this goverment letting europe take us for 18 carat cunts!


Are you really "3rd class citizens" or are you just meeting with having to live at a more and more equal footing with other citizens of countries in the EU? In other words, is the perception of being treated as less because you are no longer treated as more because you're a citizen of that country? Based on your complaints I would wonder if this isn't really what you're having a problem with.

...nothing he can say will convince me...

That's not something I'd be proud of actually. Personally, if I caught myself thinking that or saying that, and I have, I'd take pause and reevaluate my position. It is an indication of dogmatism and close-mindedness.

Now, Reagan was a total loon. I doubt I'll be convinced by what he says but I'll read the speech and allow for the remote possibility.

my point being the so called european "asylum seekers" that come here, travel through 4-5 countries that offer asylum which they ignore...reason? because they know they can PONCE here!

even the euro workers, just here to nick our jobs not settle, their women back home can claim family BENEFITS from US!

if i work in poland can i claim that? CAN I BOLLOX!

us natives of this small isle are sick to the fucking teeth of being 3rd class citizens, and for this goverment letting europe take us for 18 carat cunts!

nothing racial or anti semetic...just enough is enough!

regards,
jim.



True is that Jim , plus another thing to remember is that alot of these asylum seekers who are coming into this country are convicted rapists, murderers , thieves, along with a variety of other convictions to there name aswell :mad:
I truely wish our Pm would tell them to piss off like the aussie Pm has done, cos as you said how many countrys could we go to and claim benifets , which would have you in a better living then the actual ppl who are from that country , not one!! .
Our goverment and our country has become the laughing stock of the world , knowone takes us seriously anymore cos we let the EU (europe) tell us what we do and when we do it :mad:
Its about time our goverment showed two fingers to these bastards and let the charity begin at home :woot:

True is that Jim , plus another thing to remember is that alot of these asylum seekers who are coming into this country are convicted rapists, murderers , thieves, along with a variety of other convictions to there name aswell :mad:


I really hope you can produce the relevant information to back up that claim mate?
You're sounding very Prejudicial there. Robo Noah will be onto you.

Noah my man ...hopefully you wont take this as a skit but more a wee bit of friendly advice..... You really need to get out more...come on man lighten up !!!!!!!! Get a grip of these :boobies:

True is that Jim , plus another thing to remember is that alot of these asylum seekers who are coming into this country are convicted rapists, murderers , thieves, along with a variety of other convictions to there name aswell


Hey !! Perhaps we are a new Australia in the making . It'lll go a full circle

the number of asylum seekers has gone down since the police were told not to arrest illegal immigrants!

if a cross channel ferry sunk, thousands would drown in the back of lorries and containers. :)

its amazing how these pieces of shit get past our french "friends" eh?

every days like fucking "dunkirk"

regards,
jim.

Careful Jim! That's sounding very anti frog mate :lol:

Hating the French is not racism, it is part of our heritage!

:lol: :) :thumb:

I really hope you can produce the relevant information to back up that claim mate?
You're sounding very Prejudicial there. Robo Noah will be onto you.

:lol: Lol i heard it on Rory Bremners , Bremner , Bird & Fortune mate, those fellas make it there lifes work to find dirt and the truth about the Goverments statistics , sadly it is true , so no argueing with truthful facts :chucks:

Hey !! Perhaps we are a new Australia in the making . It'lll go a full circle

We can hope lol, i will feel proud to be british again when they finally have the balls to do so :lol:

i will feel proud to be british again when they finally have the balls to do so :lol:
It's gonna be a long fucking wait mate!
They daren't let us celebrate St. George's day (our national day) because it might upset Patel & co. Fuck 'em!

Not one to throw a cat amongst the pigeons but are you wanting to have a relationship with Noah :lol: :tard:

Did you know Noah took on 7 of each animal and not 2 . Big ship the Ark , must of stunk though , all that shit swishing around .

Is this the most amount of replys to a post in the shortest amount of time?105!!:lol:

Is this the most amount of replys to a post in the shortest amount of time?105!!:lol:
Yeah, I guess common sense prevails. Good way to hide some stinking shit.

Yeah, I guess common sense prevails. Good way to hide some stinking shit.

:dunno: How'd you work that out, you're not hidden? :dunno:

:dunno: How'd you work that out, you're not hidden? :dunno:
Fine man, thanks, :). You?

Now you gone and got me all a hurtin' bubba :rolleyes:

Did you know Noah took on 7 of each animal and not 2 . Big ship the Ark , must of stunk though , all that shit swishing around .

Depended on the animal.

Personally, from a litterary standpoint, I prefer the Sumerian/Babylonian version of that myth:


The gods were frightened by the deluge,
And, shrinking back, they ascended to the heaven of Anu.
The gods cowered like dogs
Crouched against the outer wall.


http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Interesting argument. Not sure I find it convincing of anything though.

Now you gone and got me all a hurtin' bubba :rolleyes:
Yeah, well, time to find your lil peter pecker (if you can) and set it straight (again, if you can). Shut the damn pc off for a while son. Lotsa thangs to do, maybe changing your pijama for another one, hell, who knows.

.....as long as you're making sense in your own head Bubs :thumb:

Bleat for me Big Boy Bleat !!!!!! :boobies:

till we have built Jerusalem ......................

it was either that or Fog on the Tyne

:boobies: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies:

but hey .................there's an aweful lot of SMOG around here these days

:tard: :lol: :boobies:

sing for me Noah Sing for me !!!! All together now ........


Sittin in a sleazy snack bar suckin sickly sausage rolls .............

sing for me Noah Sing for me !!!!

My compassion is broken now
my will is eroded now
desire is broken now
it makes me feel alive
im on my knees and burnin'
my piss and moans are the fuel that sets my head on fire
so smell my soul burn
im broken lookin' up to see the enemy
and i have swallowed the poison you feed me
but i survive on the poison you feed me
guilt fed, hatred fed, weakness fed
and it makes me feel ugly
on my knees and burnin'
my piss and moans are the fuel that sets my head on fire
im dead inside

shit adds up, shit adds up, shit adds up, shit adds up at the bottom

AMEN:boobies:

Depended on the animal.

Personally, from a litterary standpoint, I prefer the Sumerian/Babylonian version of that myth:



http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Interesting argument. Not sure I find it convincing of anything though.

The Bible , boy what a book . One big French whisper . Probably some guy just out for a walk with a knowledge of basic first aid when he happens upon a guy thats just trod on a nail or had his foot flattened by a stone wheel . This guy spots the patient , applies basic first aid and the rest is history .

The Bible , boy what a book . One big French whisper . Probably some guy just out for a walk with a knowledge of basic first aid when he happens upon a guy thats just trod on a nail or had his foot flattened by a stone wheel . This guy spots the patient , applies basic first aid and the rest is history .

Want a fascinating idea of the origins of THAT particular myth? Check out this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=mBQNEEJvexcC&dq=mack+lost+gospel&pg=PP1&ots=LvkAYT_N7f&sig=m1nby4XxSVE-2-iuoC1tIm3Hm4I&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fclient%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Ds%26hl%3Den%26q%3Dmack%2Bl ost%2Bgospel%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

I find it the most realistic idea of who the historical Jesus may have been. Who the hell knows if it's actually true or not, but it seems to make sense anyway.

The Bible , boy what a book . One big French whisper . Probably some guy just out for a walk with a knowledge of basic first aid when he happens upon a guy thats just trod on a nail or had his foot flattened by a stone wheel . This guy spots the patient , applies basic first aid and the rest is history .

Yeah, I remember voicing the theory that the creation story itself may also be a parable in Sunday school once way back when. Wouldn't even entertain the fact. No, I was a blasphemer ! :lol:

Talk about testing whether the "This is an open forum, all questions are welcome" quote actually held any water. First question, and straight away steamrolled into a certain way of thinking. "No, it's not a parable, because I say so. No proof, no debate, as I don't have anything to back up my arguements, I'm just older than you, and therefore wiser, so just accept what I say, the creation story is not a parable, stop disrupting the class....!"

"Well, what about Noah and his ark ? What if that...?"

"Just stop now, or you can stand in the corner...!"

"Eh ?"

"Well, what about Noah and his ark ? What if that...?"

"Noah had a bad back and when God told him to get to work he said, 'Can't...on break...union rules buddy. What, you think we're slaves or something?'

"Then God was stuck because it's not like he could build the ark himself and there was nobody worth saving anyway. God eventually decided that he was an utter failure, his whole creation having turned into shit in only a few hundred years, and decided to go mope in the corner for a few millenia mumbling, 'I wonder if Clinton will take it up the ass.'"

Actually, here's a real story:

God called down to Noah and said "Noah, I want you to make me a new Ark".
Noah replied, "No probs God, anything you want ? After all you're the boss".
God interrupted, "Ah there's a catch this time Noah, I want not just a couple of decks, ..... I want 20 decks one on top of the other".
"20 DECKS!", screamed Noah, "Well, OK Big Man, whatever you say, should I fill it up with all the animals just like last time?"
"Yep, that's right, well ..... sort of right.......this time I want you to fill it up with fish" God answered.
"Fish?" Queried Noah.
"Yep, fish ... well, to make it more specific Noah, I want Carp, wall to wall, floor to ceiling - Carp!"
Noah looked to the skies, "OK God, let me get this right, you want a New Ark?"
"Check".
"With 20 decks, one on top of the other?".
"Check".
"And you want it full of Carp?".
"Check"
"But why?" asked the perplexed Noah, who was slowly but surely getting to the end of his tether.
"Well...." said God, "I just thought it would be nice to have a Multi-Storey Carp Ark"

I don't really think this original quote is entirely correct ... for one john howard isn't even prime minister anymore here , and if he'd said something like that i think it would've been a pretty big deal ! cause of the bluntness of the statement ... or maybe i live under a rock i dunno haha

I don't really think this original quote is entirely correct ... for one john howard isn't even prime minister anymore here , and if he'd said something like that i think it would've been a pretty big deal ! cause of the bluntness of the statement ... or maybe i live under a rock i dunno haha

Nah, he didn't say it. It's actually an alteration of a letter written by an American Air Force soldier to his local newspaper. It took on a life of its own. I posted the snopes page somewhere in this pile.

He did say that Muslims who want to live under Sharia law should reconsider if Australia is the place to go since Australia is a secular state. That's a paraphrase of course, but true to what I remember of what I read.

:hug:

http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/06/06/spike-lee-isnt-about-to-make-clint-eastwoods-day/

http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/06/06/spike-lee-isnt-about-to-make-clint-eastwoods-day/


Deja vu,..second time I read about this on a forum. Same response. Go watch Letters from Iwojima.