Thought this would be an interesting discussion :) , which do you prefer, a
Real Amp or an Amp Modeller?, and as importantly, which do you use?
Details, opinions, and pics welcome, and there's a poll above (with the added option of "Other" for those of you who might just prefer things acoustic or whatever).
I'll add my setup in the morning :)

I personally prefer real amps... they just have that intangible to me, ya know? The sound you can get from a modeller is pretty damn good, but there's that je ne sais quoi with an actual amp... maybe the vibration, or the way it heats up, or something, but it just sounds more natural.

Timely Question

I just retubed 3 of my amps today.Last time i changed them was June 2007 just about the right amount of usage.

4 JJ EL84 and 3 JJ12AX7 in my Peavy Classic 30
Gold 12AX7 Tungsol in my Kustom HV 65
2 Mullard EL34 3 Mullard 12AX7 in my Kustom Defender.

The upkeep and expense mentioned above is one downfall of real tube amps but it's a small price to pay when you hear the subtle nuances you get from fresh new tubes.
Must say though that modelers get pretty close these days to the real thing, my line6 Spider has some great Fender,Marshall, and Mesa Boogie settings, and the COSM on my Roland recorder has a Killer Vintage Marshall 1959 setting.

But The Cachunk Thump Ker- raaanggg (windmill "A"power chord)of real tubes is still KING.

P.S here is where i get my tubes they have pretty good price's and offer matched pair's.

http://thetubestore.com/

And here is a review of 12AX7 Tubes as well
http://thetubestore.com/12ax7review.html

here is EL34 Review

http://thetubestore.com/el34review.html

Here is the EL84 Review
http://thetubestore.com/el84review.html

Im not sure which catergory mine falls in cos what i use is like a hybrid , its like a small amp modeller but driven by tubes , i do agree with Parker and Al tho , anything tube based sounds that touch finer then digital modellers with a slightly warmer , fuller sound i find :)
So will have to say amp i guess :headscratch:

Bollocks just saw the "other" voting option :lol: , come on Mart , wakey wakey lol :lol:

Tough one. I went with real amp.

I've played live a few times, and there's nothing like playing through a JCM 900 or other type Marshall.

However, I must stress, that I haven't got a bloody clue when it comes to setting up amps and PA systems. The times when I have played live it's been with someone who knows what they are doing. e.g. a P.A. system already set up that all I had to do was plug myself into, or in my brother's band where I just turned up with my PODxt and he blended the JCM setting on there into his true JCM 900 and did some sort of crossover to blend them further (like I say, I don't know what the fuck he did, but it sounded massive).

So if it came to me having to use something, then I would have to say Amp modellor. I used to have, and still do have, a Marshall 15w Valvestate Amp, but I could never get a decent tone out of it, mostly because I could never turn the damn thing up as it would annoy the wife and neighbours.

Canyoncarver, ericgtr and wahwah here convinced (or maybe they pleaded because they were fed up with the shit I produced from a zoom pedal and a marshall at 0.000001 volume) me to get a PODxt, and it's effortless. Whilst I haven't actually got that far past the 12B Eruption setting, it is just so nice to plug in, dial in a preset, and wail away.

So, if I'm playing live, then an amp, with a guy who knows what knobs to twist, if it's me playing, then a modellor, just so as I don't annoy the wife, and for ease of use because I don't know what I am doing !

:thumb:

Well i use a Pod X3L, and i gotta say its excellent in most areas, with the amount of flexability it has with tones and effects, its hard to not favour it over an amp most of the time.
I've not used a 'real' amp for sometime now, the only amp i even own now is a Marshall MG30, which although has a nice sound, the clean channel especially, its no match for the X3L, plus i can't use it at volume anymore either.
The one thing i miss most about a real amp cracked up is the sustain, for me thats the big thing that Modellers can't recreate, the speaker -> pickup effect, sometimes you end up having to crack a patch quite abit harder then you would like just to get some sustain, and thats always a pain.
My MG30 i gotta say sounded nice, but these days it doesn't hardly come on, i've not even used it that much, but its quite unreliable, so it never gets used anymore, so i guess i'm going with Modellers :)

If i was in a band or on tour and had the money available, yes i'd probably rig up with an amp, but until then, the X3L's for me :)

I used to use the behringer modeling v amp pro 2 and it was very good for recording and was o.k. for live work but after getting my Ashdown Fallen angel 60 valve head and 4x12 I decided it's valves for me and got rid of the modeling stuff.You can't beat the sound of a cranked up valve amp:) I do like the software amp simulations though,like amplitube 2 and ,but they are a bit cpu heavy and very noisy,but they are handy for cab simulations.I now mike up my 4x12 for recording using a sm57 and you just can't beat it.Mind you,I wouldn't mind a pod just for ease of recording and it does have some excellent sounds.:wtf:

I use a modeller, the good old line6 guitarport. It takes me where I need to go, most of the time.
Real amps may sound better, but they are also alot louder (sometimes good, sometimes bad), more space consuming and more expensive. So modeller it is for me, since I'm just playing at home in my living room.

At work I use my tubeamps...here ay home I retired my old DRP-1 Marshall, and bought a used POD 2.0...mostly because I have heard so many nice tones here....and it has proven to be an excellent replacement for my home stuff....
Really happy with that one, use it together with some of my pedals as well...
Nice unit, very easy to get good sounds out of..
Had it for a couple of days now....
Use both kinds...

I voted for amp modeler, just because that is what I use, I do however run it through a tube mic preamp to try and warm it up.

I use a Vamp-Pro modeller .... by itself for recording, but for live, it also drives either a Peavey Classic 50/50 all-valve rackmount poweramp ... or more recently, a vintage Sound City MKIV L120 2 channel all-valve head (non M/V).

I got the best of both worlds at my fingertips ... variety of (V.Good) sounds, reinforced with the beautiful cooking sound of real valves.

Just also bought a WEBER MASS attenuater also, to tame the output from my L120 down to reasonable on-stage volume ... with the true sound of poweramp saturation from a cranked/dimed non M/V valve head.

Just waiting for delivery of both that and my stolen/recently recovered Ibanez Roadstar ... and I'll be in spasm heaven!!

btw ... I went for "Real amp" :)

well it has to be a modeler for me..perfect for home playing/recording. gonna part with the podxt soon though, and join mart with the G9.2tt...well its got 2 tubes so hopefully less digital.

regards,
jim.

The voted are extremely even so far, and its great to hear what everyone is recording on, plus your opinions and experience with that equipment, its going to be very close by the looks of it though :)

well it has to be a modeler for me..perfect for home playing/recording. gonna part with the podxt soon though, and join mart with the G9.2tt...well its got 2 tubes so hopefully less digital.

regards,
jim.

It definetly is Jim , im liking it more n more as time goes by and you can get some fantastic tones out of it , just takes abit of adjusting from a podxt but you will love it :D

It definetly is Jim , im liking it more n more as time goes by and you can get some fantastic tones out of it , just takes abit of adjusting from a podxt but you will love it :D

Hey Bahamut

what would you say is the most used modeler on this site?.I have heard some great tracks by guys using them.I know about the Vamp that Captain Spasm uses....but what is the best Pod type modeler style number.

Park

Its hard to say mate , ive used a v-amp2 , podxt and most recently a zoom G9.2tt , the v-amp2 is good for its price , i think you can pickup one for about £50 -£60 , maybe even cheaper ?
The podxt/podx3/live is excellent and i think alot of ppl on here use one or the other , but theres alot of support for the line6 stuff with patchs, upgradable add ons(depending on what you have) , a community who post there patchs for them to , so they are pretty decent and i used my podxt for about nearly two years , been excellent but i need a slightly diffrent edge lately and im dipping into diffrent styles , some of which need that extra bit more , still the line6 stuff is decent :)
Finally the Zoom G9.2tt is what ive just got recently , its like a amp modeller but with two tubes in it , which you can vary , it only has half the amps a pod does , effects wise probably afew less to but then it has two pedals on it , one of which that moves up/down and left n right for various stuff you can also use it as a preamp for a amp setup aswell , which i did try quickly and sounds excellent with , depends what you want tho , im more of a neo classical / modern hi gain guitarist and the G9 works really well for this ,for blues tones its hard to know cos apart from my Blackmore influences i don't really play much blues :)
So all n all if i had to choose it would be between the podxt and G9 , but both have there advantages / disadvantages , the V-amp2 is decent but when you have the podxt, V-amp2 sat together and you test them out on similar amps , the podxt is much better :)
Still you might wanna check out the V-amp pro , Kenny (Eamon7) uses one at gets some lovely tones out of it , lol its crackers mate , i think you just have to use what suites you really and often whats one mans rubbish is another mans gold as they say :D

Its hard to say mate , ive used a v-amp2 , podxt and most recently a zoom G9.2tt , the v-amp2 is good for its price , i think you can pickup one for about £50 -£60 , maybe even cheaper ?
The podxt/podx3/live is excellent and i think alot of ppl on here use one or the other , but theres alot of support for the line6 stuff with patchs, upgradable add ons(depending on what you have) , a community who post there patchs for them to , so they are pretty decent and i used my podxt for about nearly two years , been excellent but i need a slightly diffrent edge lately and im dipping into diffrent styles , some of which need that extra bit more , still the line6 stuff is decent :)
Finally the Zoom G9.2tt is what ive just got recently , its like a amp modeller but with two tubes in it , which you can vary , it only has half the amps a pod does , effects wise probably afew less to but then it has two pedals on it , one of which that moves up/down and left n right for various stuff you can also use it as a preamp for a amp setup aswell , which i did try quickly and sounds excellent with , depends what you want tho , im more of a neo classical / modern hi gain guitarist and the G9 works really well for this ,for blues tones its hard to know cos apart from my Blackmore influences i don't really play much blues :)
So all n all if i had to choose it would be between the podxt and G9 , but both have there advantages / disadvantages , the V-amp2 is decent but when you have the podxt, V-amp2 sat together and you test them out on similar amps , the podxt is much better :)
Still you might wanna check out the V-amp pro , Kenny (Eamon7) uses one at gets some lovely tones out of it , lol its crackers mate , i think you just have to use what suites you really and often whats one mans rubbish is another mans gold as they say :D


Thanks Bahamut
This is the type of information i was looking for,and honest opinion and comparison from someone who has owned different models and manufactures.
I might just trade in one of my old guitar amps and mess around with one.

I am lucky for the fact that i have a good sound insulated basement or i would be using a modeler for sure.For an apartment or duplex style home this would be the best answer to playing loud without pissing off the neighbors.

Thanks again Park

With modellers Park it becomes a tradeoff between the gorgeous true sound of valves/tubes and the variety of sounds available from the modeller.

Or try one direct into your real amp's poweramp stage (if you have an fx loop).

Whatever you do, don't use one to drive the front end of a master volume equipped amp.

Having said that ... they DO work well driving the front end of a NON m/v head ... just make sure you turn off the modeller's speaker simulation and keep the eq fairly flat if you're driving a real amp with it (either modeller eq flat and shaping the tone with the amp ... or vice-versa).

Eq in my 70s L120 head is active too ... so I can get some real wide sound palette changes with only a couple degrees variation. :rock:

EDIT! - just had a reality check ... if you plug direct into a real amp's power stage ... then you HAVE to use the modeller's eq of course, cause you completely bypass the host amp's preamp ... and the modeller is then the ONLY source of eq shaping. You'll also have to control the overall volume with the modeller's master output level, since the modeller is of course providing the only input into the power valves/tubes. If you run the modeller at full output then (usually) you're operating the power amp at full potential ... cause you also (usually) bypass the master volume control - if it's a m/v amp! ... or bypass the channel volume with a non m/v amp

Hard choice for me,..because I use both,..A Behringer V-Amp Pro for home recording and also the Bass V-Amp Pro and a Johnson Millennium 250 for gigs. Sooo,..I use them all the time and love them. IMO,..it's hard to tell the difference anymore between them. My buddy uses a Mesa MkIV and he loves my amp and to be honest,..I like mine better for it's tone. I used to use a Marshall all tube amp,..don't get me wrong it kicked ass but it was a one trick pony,..unless you have a shit load of stomp boxes to go along with it. I can set my millennium for any sound or tone and just hit the foot switch,...and I got it! They have come a long way and will continue to get better and better!
:)
Johnny

Good point is that Johnny , as you say with amps they can have a gorgeus sound but they can be concentrated in a certain way sound wise , i guess really when you think about it we take the modellers for granted alittle , imagine if you only had one amp on your modeller , would be very difficult to pinpoint the kinda tone your after unless it was in the area you wanted it to start with :)
That is one thing about the G9 i have noticed tho , when you use the podxt alot of the hi gain amps sound very much alike and so do some of the others aswell , i have to say on the G9 every amp model on here sounds diffrent even tho some are from the same maker and they all have diffrent characteristics , you can use the same eq settings and a diffrent amp reacts diffrently , so that way its probably the most authentic modeller ive used so far :)

I love my Podxt, great for recording. Its easy to pop the headphones on any time of day/night and have many tones at a click of the mouse. I also use the Line 6 Spider3 75w. Both of which were recommended by Wahwah, which I must say Cheers mate:)

Some very interesting info and opinions i must say :)

I used my MG30 for a couple of years, and with the DS-1 infront, it was useful, but nothing special.
I then got a V-Amp 2, which was about then i joined up with G101 many moons ago now, and i gotta say, that was the moment i seriously started getting back into guitaring, i'd not really touched a guitar for a while til then (long story), but with my BT's starting to take off, and the lovely tones available from the V-Amp, it got me interested again.
The V-Amp 2 is still very good, i once got a rhythm tone down for "The Forgotten Part 2" and even now with the X3L, it still holds up extremely well, anyone on a budget, the V-Amp is such good value, and it really got me back into music.

The next i used was the Pod XT, imo, better then the V-Amp 2, harder to setup, but ultimately it has better tones, effects, more amps, options and support too, a truely awesome piece of equipment, and as the X3 series slowly start driving the price of the XTs down, i think they are getting more of a bargin with every price drop.

Since early this year now, i've been using the Pod X3 Live, soundwise imo, its slightly better then the XT series, the amps react slightly better, the bottom end on alot of the amps have more clarity, amps such as the ENGL Powerball on the XT i hated, and deemed un-useable really, cus they were so muddy on the thicker strings no matter what you did, and to a far lesser extent, some of the Treadplate amps had this prob too.
On the X3L (and i assume the rest of the X3 range) these amps sound far better, the ENGL especially, and the original Line 6 amps too, some of those are really high quality amps, some give better sounds then other amps which are modelled on the sound they should give.
If thats not enough, you also have the Bass Amps, and mic amps too, both of which i use quite abit too.

Bad points on the X3L, for me the Compressors, all of them seem to just add noise on the stomps and not do much at all, the post-Amp Comp is better, but the Threshold can really be too harsh at times, so thas one thing that hopefully will change in future updates, because apparently, on the Pod 2.0, the Comps were excellent, so thats something they need to address.
Generally speaking though, its an excellent Modeller, the best i've used, by far the most flexable, and i think its only rival is the G9.2tt, which i've only played on a couple of times, im not the biggest fan of Zoom equipment, but i gotta say with the right setting it sounds lovely too.

Atm my default rig is Digitech Whammy -> 535Q Wah -> X3L, and thats it, the 535Q might seem slightly odd addition with a X3L which has Wahs onboard, but nothing can match the 535Q quite honestly, so that still remains in my chain :)

Good point is that Johnny , as you say with amps they can have a gorgeus sound but they can be concentrated in a certain way sound wise , i guess really when you think about it we take the modellers for granted alittle , imagine if you only had one amp on your modeler , would be very difficult to pinpoint the kinda tone your after unless it was in the area you wanted it to start with :)
That is one thing about the G9 i have noticed tho , when you use the podxt alot of the hi gain amps sound very much alike and so do some of the others aswell , i have to say on the G9 every amp model on here sounds diffrent even tho some are from the same maker and they all have diffrent characteristics , you can use the same eq settings and a diffrent amp reacts diffrently , so that way its probably the most authentic modeller ive used so far :)


I'll have to look up the G9. I've never seen one yet or heard it! Who is it made by? Sounds interesting!

I like modelers because I can tweak the crap out of any section of them to give me my OWN tone. The Johnson is really good at this,..because it has 2 12AX7s on the preamp side. The amp compresses just like an all tube amp,..but with all the bells and whistles. I really need the modeling amp,..because,..we play so many different styles of music out live,..that I need the versatility of the modeling amp. Don't get me wrong,..when they first came out,..I thought they sucked,..but with all the new technology they have,..you just can't beat them anymore!

Johnny

I'll have to look up the G9. I've never seen one yet or heard it! Who is it made by? Sounds interesting!

Its made by Zoom mate :

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/g92tt/

Its made by Zoom mate :

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/g92tt/


Wow,..I just took a lok at this. It looks really nice. Is it hard to use and to tweak? I really like the 2 12AX7s it has. Should sound amazing! Anyone have any sample recordings,..that could post some sound samples here?

Johnny

Wow,..I just took a lok at this. It looks really nice. Is it hard to use and to tweak? I really like the 2 12AX7s it has. Sould sound amazing! Anyone have any sample recordings,..that could post some sound samples here?

Johnny

Well i think maybe that would make a cool addition to the forum, possibily a stickied thread with samples of various gear we all use, i'd definately be up for doing some samples for others to hear, if we get enough ppl interested, it might make a nice addition to the section :)

Well i think maybe that would make a cool addition to the forum, possibily a stickied thread with samples of various gear we all use, i'd definately be up for doing some samples for others to hear, if we get enough ppl interested, it might make a nice addition to the section :)

Good idea Jam , it always help if you can hear some real samples of some of these things in action as opposed to having to listen to some shite samples from the manufacturers :)
Once i get abit of time i will put up some sound samples for you Johnny of the G9.2tt :)

well we all know that nothing beats an all valve amp but.......i'm going with the modelers. i have owned a few Marshall's for live playing including a plexi, jcm800, 2 valvestate100 combos and a 20th anniversary combo. i kept the valvestate for band practice and the 20th anniversary model because it is too valuable and sold the others. i use a Beringer lxi combo and love it. the problem with the Marshall's is that they had the best rhythm tone when played extremely loud and nothing else. never enough gain for a decent lead sound so you had to use pedals. clean sound was good but again with no effects you needed pedals. i hate pedals. for starters i play in small bars and you can't have pedals on the floor when you have people falling on them and drunk women stepping on them when they come on stage etc. plus between singing dodging drunks,and running sound from stage i cant be dancing on my pedals turning some on and some off. i need one button. rhythm to lead and back. thats it. i have my Beringer combo programmed for great sounding rhythms and when i kick in a lead i have a gain and volume increase programmed in with all the proper effects for each song we do. sorry Marshall. and as far as recording goes the modelers win again. my v-amp2 and waves gtr3 do everything i need. funny but when i got a v-amp2 it was life changing. besides being totally amazed at the sound and effects it got me recording again and practicing again. then i joined guitars101 and gblast and met all you wonderful people and its all due to my buying a v-amp2

funny but when i got a v-amp2 it was life changing. besides being totally amazed at the sound and effects it got me recording again and practicing again. then i joined guitars101 and gblast and met all you wonderful people and its all due to my buying a v-amp2

It was exactly the same for me too, it really got me back on track, and interested in recording again, the V-Amp 2 is still a great unit too, and you get some of the best sounds i've heard out of it, as does John too :)

Good idea Jam , it always help if you can hear some real samples of some of these things in action as opposed to having to listen to some shite samples from the manufacturers :)
Once i get abit of time i will put up some sound samples for you Johnny of the G9.2tt :)


That would be great. I would like to buy one,..but when you have a controlled sound sample from Zoom on their site,...I tend to think it will be a little different coming from a actual user. Thanks man!

Johnny

That would be great. I would like to buy one,..but when you have a controlled sound sample from Zoom on their site,...I tend to think it will be a little different coming from a actual user. Thanks man!

Johnny

Yw mate , yeah i think we all tend to find that the sound samples on most of these sites are pretty poor really , you wanna hear someone really pushing it out there as opposed to just listening to a quick twank with boat loads of effects on :lol:
Ive got to sort afew things out on me custom guitar first tho before i do any sound samples , i scalloped the frets on it the other day , altho i really love it i need to put some new inlay dots in it lol, all the filing/sanding has worn the old dots away:woot:

Man this is great information!

Armed with these testimomials i will go and check out some of these modelers you guy's have been talking about.One thing that held me back from modelers was the use of headphones.I have done so much damage to my hearring that i was affraid to use headphones.But if i can use them through my regular pre amp or recording unit then out to the fronts thats great.

We palyed stupidly loud when i was a kid for many many years.And it is just showing up now when i went and got a hearring test.

Park

Man this is great information!

Armed with these testimomials i will go and check out some of these modelers you guy's have been talking about.One thing that held me back from modelers was the use of headphones.I have done so much damage to my hearring that i was affraid to use headphones.But if i can use them through my regular pre amp or recording unit then out to the fronts thats great.

We palyed stupidly loud when i was a kid for many many years.And it is just showing up now when i went and got a hearring test.

Park

Thats another cool thing about both the Pods (XT & X3 series atleast), Zoom G9.2tt and V-Amps aswell, they all have multiple modes of output, suitable for a range of applications.
I've only ever used the studio out mode on all the above myself, but i know alot of ppl use them onstage in various setups, and with the huge range of tones they have available, it can be so handy for stage too, as has been mentioned.

Looking now at the scoreboard, Modellers are infront :)

reading what you said about the manifacturers tones, i bought a vox tonelab [modeler with a tube in] after hearing some tones from their site.

now the reason i want a modeler is for the headphones [stop "her" from moaning] the vox tones sounded terrific....until i tried it. seemed they musta played it through different amps which gave a fase impression for me.

well i backed it, it did sound warm n tubey but too limited.
the podxt and the zoom both have usb recording too.
a tone sample section sounds interesting, its not like anyones trying to sell a product. :)

regards,
jim.

I had to go with other, I have a tube amp that has an amazing clean tone but when I get the urge to distort I put a modeller inline. I know that sounds funky, but putting the GNX-3000 into the tube amp gives me the best of both worlds when I wanna get the most variety.

reading what you said about the manifacturers tones, i bought a vox tonelab [modeler with a tube in] after hearing some tones from their site.

now the reason i want a modeler is for the headphones [stop "her" from moaning] the vox tones sounded terrific....until i tried it. seemed they musta played it through different amps which gave a fase impression for me.

well i backed it, it did sound warm n tubey but too limited.
the podxt and the zoom both have usb recording too.
a tone sample section sounds interesting, its not like anyones trying to sell a product. :)

regards,
jim.

Yeah, thats the thing isn't it, you hear samples the manufactures put out, but you never know what exactly its recorded on, or how much they have mastered the sound either, so i think our very own indepentant "Tried'n'Tested" thread/sub-forum could prove useful :)


I had to go with other, I have a tube amp that has an amazing clean tone but when I get the urge to distort I put a modeller inline. I know that sounds funky, but putting the GNX-3000 into the tube amp gives me the best of both worlds when I wanna get the most variety.

Sounds a good idea really, i know my Marshall MG sounded very nice on the clean channel (even though its solid state), and at times i've outputed my Pod & V-Amp to the MG just to give it the modeller a cabinet (switched the cabinet modelling off, and use the Pod as a stomp & effects unit), works quite nicely too, and with you having a Tube Amp, thast even more of a bonus im sure :)